Folding knives FOLD.

D

darthsoaker

Joined
May 2, 2006
Messages
1,273
I went with my boyscout friend on a hike, with his boyscout friends. Kinda fun except for one thing.

All the punks there were using cheap #$%^ crap knives. All of locked, sadly enough. These kids were using up like they were fixed blades, throwing them into trees, stabbing things with them, ect.

I was horror struck, I handled a few of the knives, most of them had loose locks, and a terrible fit. I can't believe what they were doing with there knives.

I think all boyscouts should use a Swiss Army Knife for a few years, until they learn that ALL knives fold, even locking ones. :mad:
 
darthsoaker said:
I think all boyscouts should use a Swiss Army Knife for a few years, until they learn that ALL knives fold, even locking ones. :mad:
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Swiss Army knives fold too, so what's the point? Unsupervised kids with knives can be a disastrous affair. If the kids don't do damage to themselves, they'll certainly do damage to the knives. What you should do is instruct them on the proper use of a knife while outdoors or hiking. If they want to throw knives at trees and such, there are plenty of cheap throwing knives designed just for that purpose.
 
I think there should be a requirement that one must carry only slipjoints without hurting oneself for a year and a day before one is allowed to purchase a lock blade. :D

Even on these forums, there seem to be a great many people who think that a lock magically transforms a folding knife into a fixed blade knife. I guess that they started with locking knives, and never learned how to use a folding knife safely.
 
Cosmic Superchunk said:
Swiss Army knives fold too, so what's the point? Unsupervised kids with knives can be a disastrous affair. If the kids don't do damage to themselves, they'll certainly do damage to the knives. What you should do is instruct them on the proper use of a knife while outdoors or hiking. If they want to throw knives at trees and such, there are plenty of cheap throwing knives designed just for that purpose.
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I think what he is saying is that a folding knife with a lock does not make it a fixed blade and that they should learn with a SAK that does not have a lock how to properly handle folders.
 
It sounds to me like they were behaving as typical unsupervised teenage boys: All gonads and no brains.

I doubt that they would exhibit such behavior if they were on a supervised scouting expedition. That is to say, I doubt they learned to do such things as scouts. I am reasonably certain that scouts are still taught proper knife handling technique. Whether scouts learn them and practice them when they are unsupervised is another question entirely.
 
There use to be a knife and axe merit badge.
Where you were not allowed to carry a knife or use an axe unless you had passed the badge.
The boys would learn how to use and sharpen both knives and axes.
We even had an axe and handle to teach how to replace a handle with wedges.

But I guess times have changed....
 
Neeman, what do you want ,reason and logic ??? Today it's no training , no brains and when you hurt yourself surely someone else is to blame so sue !!
 
knarfeng said:
It sounds to me like they were behaving as typical unsupervised teenage boys: All gonads and no brains.

I doubt that they would exhibit such behavior if they were on a supervised scouting expedition. That is to say, I doubt they learned to do such things as scouts. I am reasonably certain that scouts are still taught proper knife handling technique. Whether scouts learn them and practice them when they are unsupervised is another question entirely.
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To the contrary, I have read that the Scouting management discourages carry of edged tools, and that if a youngster shows up with one at a function or campout the adults are horrified and it may be confiscated. I don't believe any instruction is available. As a Cub Scout I always had the official jackknife hanging on my belt to make a complete uniform, but that was 50 years ago.
 
Did you bring this to their atention..or just typing it here to us.....
If your that concerned ....get involved.... not rant .....
 
Hello all,
I am a life scout and can tell you, those kids would have had the crap beat out of them in my troop! We literly are not allowed to TOUCH knives, untill we have passed our "toten Chit" which involves learning how to handle, and use knives. Most scout leaders inforce this rule VERY strictly. Throwing knives and sheath knives are illegal in scouts too, and your knife can ONLY be 3 in. blade according to some, I carry the legal limit of 4 in. no matter what, I don't care what the punks say. I would suggest talking to the scout master of that group, and tell him how they were acting. I am sure he would be just as appaled as you were.
As to what you said about the knives they were carrying, that is just what people have nowadays. They go to WalMart and pick up the cheapest thing, or a flea market. They don't even know what a REAL SAK or BenchMade or anything like that is. I think they will all learn the hard way one of these days, but it would be better if someone like yourself stepped in BEFORE they end up missing fingers.
Jeff
 
JGarth said:
Did you bring this to their atention..or just typing it here to us.....
If your that concerned ....get involved.... not rant .....
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I'm just complaining. :p

I did tell some off the guys not too do anything stupid, but they ignored me. :grumpy:

My boyscout friend is the son of leader (forgot what there called) of his group, and when I first met him, he was just like all the other Boy Scouts in his group around knives.

Thanks FlaMtnBkr, my point exactly.

I don't know about you guys, but I treat ALL of my knives like slip-joints whenever possible.
 
Scouts used to have to EARN a "Totin' Chip" before they (we) were
permitted to cary a knife.
The Totin Chip could be revoked by the Scout Master, if he observed
irresponsible behavior with a knife........

So where were the leaders..?
 
Russ Andrews said:
Scouts used to have to EARN a "Totin' Chip" before they (we) were
permitted to cary a knife.
The Totin Chip could be revoked by the Scout Master, if he observed
irresponsible behavior with a knife........

So where were the leaders..?
Click to expand...

There was only one "leader" on our hike, and he was else where, talking to some other scouts.

My friend told me about two other incidents like this,

1, his friend broke the tip of his knife by stabbing into a tree, and pulling it out at an angle.

2. He was telling me about how far one of his friends could throw a folding knife, and get it to stick. That one may have been at Summer camp, but I'm pretty sure it was at some boy scout event.
 
Many decades ago, when I was a Boy Scout, I was nominated to the Order or the Arrow. During the initiation you had to carve a arrow out of a piece of oak. Most of the candidates were carrying Buck 110 that seemed to be the popular knife of the time. I had a carbon steel camillus stockman (I still have that knife) early 70 stainless steel in the 110's left a lot to be desired but the Little camillus eat the wood up and I carved an arrow I could be proud of. The candidates the would pay attention (as I remember you weren't aloud to talk)
I let use my stockman, and they carved arrows to be proud of. At our next Scouting event everyone still had there 110's but they also had a stockman or a whittler slip joint. Our troop made a lot of wood chips after that, and some nice carvings also.
 
jeffdk06 said:
Hello all,
I am a life scout and can tell you, those kids would have had the crap beat out of them in my troop! We literly are not allowed to TOUCH knives, untill we have passed our "toten Chit" which involves learning how to handle, and use knives. Most scout leaders inforce this rule VERY strictly. Throwing knives and sheath knives are illegal in scouts too, and your knife can ONLY be 3 in. blade according to some, I carry the legal limit of 4 in. no matter what, I don't care what the punks say. I would suggest talking to the scout master of that group, and tell him how they were acting. I am sure he would be just as appaled as you were.
Click to expand...

Eagle Scout here, and you are right on the money. None of that behavior would have flown in my troop. If your buddy ranks above them, then he needs to be a better leader. If nothing more, he needs to let the scoutmaster know that they need to take some time to review knife safety(it might not be a bad idea to add a discussion of knife quality) and be on the lookout for idiocy on outings. Start cutting some corners.
 
May the Eagles fly forever. I only have a little bit left before I get there, and I thinks there are a LOT of Eagles here. ;)
Jeff
 
I'm also currently a Life Scout, with my Eagle in the works (still planning the service project). I've made several posts about my experiences at Philmont here on the forums about the cutlery choices of my fellow Scouts on the expedition. The majority of my crew (5 of the 10) carried cheap folding knives and handled them very irresponsibly. By the second day, four of the knives had chipped and ineffectively dull cutting edges and three had fallen apart due to being thrown into the grown, into trees, and (gasp!) at each other's feet. With all due respect (is there really any due?), these fellows were complete morons. In fact, three of the other Scouts carried no knives at all.

The people running the trip, the Sickmillers, had advised the participants at an earlier meeting that a knife was not necessary at Philmont and would probably be deadweight in the pack. What happened to "be prepared" in their book? I personally would never travel into the middle of a harsh country in the remote mountains of northern New Mexico without some type of reliable edged tool; if the crew became lost or a flash flood or other natural disaster (which are quiet common in the Valle Vidal, or north country, of Philmont---in fact, our crew's itenerary had to be changed twice, once because of a flash flood and a second time because of a forest fire), a reliable knife could save lives and valuable equipment. The only other Scout from my troop that went, the Crew Leader (I was the Assistant Crew Leader, or ACL), carried a Spyderco Police at my urging, and his father carried an Ek full-tang fixed blade with a cord-wrapped handle. I carried not only my Spyderco Military, a very lightweight folder with an S30V blade of 3-13/16", but also a Dozier sheath knife made in D2 (which I purchased due to its recommendations here). I have no doubt that had things gotten dangerous, they would have served me well. In fact, they served me very well with the everyday chores out in the backcountry, ranging from preparing food to cutting cord to lash things and making clotheslines.

Jeffdk06-
Fixed blade knives and throwing knives are in no way illegal in the Boy Scouts of America. The Klondike Derby, an annual event held in the Harding District, even utilizes throwing knives, tomahawks, and poles in its competition. Fixed blades are discouraged, but I find them to be most useful for chores around camp and are permitted. The fact is, while not illegal, some camps have banned them from the ranks of younger Scouts because of their irresponsibility. No one needs a machete or a knife such as a Cold Steel Magnum XII Tanto around camp. However, a short (around four inches) knife such as a Dozier or Ontario RAT3 would be perfect for camp chores. The juridstiction in my area does not limit to 4 inches, and thus the carry of such a knife is legal. I resent the fact that because I may carry a large folder or a sheath knife, which are perfectly functional and more practical than a SAK with a 1" nonlocking blade, I am considered a punk. Such is not the case.

Also, there is no limit as to the size of the blade on the folder for Scouts in general; it is up to the Scoutmaster or local Roundtable. My Scoutmaster is a law enforcement officer and has no limits as long as the Scout is responsible and the application for such a tool is practical. I carried a Cold Steel Voyager X2 folder to several campouts to test its effectiveness around camp and received no objections.

Under the direction of my Scoutmaster and myself (I'm considered the knife guru of the troop), many of the younger Scouts have small Case single-bladed knives to learn the ropes, and several have graduated to locking knives such as the Spyderco Dragonfly. They are very responsible and have all earned the "Tote'n Chip" twice (TWICE) under my direction before being allowed to use anything.

I believe it would be great to have a merit badge that shows the function and purposes of other tools in the outdoors other than a Swiss Army Knife. I do believe that these have their place as well; a Victorinox SwissChamp has its place in my first aid kit and an identical one is in the glovebox of my GMC. It would also be an excellent idea to have leaders go through a certification to show them the safety and proper use of knives, much like an adult "Tote'n Chip" so that they can spot misuse and abuse more easily themselves.

While I digressed from the topic and tended to rant, I hope that my post provided some insight. God bless all of you, America, and our men and women overseas.

KATN,

Wade
619G6
 
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