For all the naysayers who said it wouldn't work

[Medic1210]

I can finally say it in fact does work... like a charm. After three long, tortuous weeks of waiting, my Small 21 Micarta arrived earlier today. Finally I have the knife I've wanted since late last year. To my pleasant surprise, my Micarta knife came clean... No Idaho Made stamp!! Now, on the down side... It came with the new S35VN blade, so I'm left debating whether or not I want to keep the what is now a plain 21, with S35VN blade. I honestly can't justify having two smalls though, so someone will be getting the opportunity to pick up a Small 21 with new blade (that hasn't cut a single thing), and slightly carried scales with no Idaho stamp. Just too much money for having two knives that will do the same thing. I'm not a collector, so I don't need several variants of the same knife. Now, if CRK ever offers the Insingo in Micarta, I may decide to pick up a large, but until then, I believe I'm gonna be a one Sebbie guy. Anyway, about the swap. To my surprise, the Micarta came from the factory just like my Insingo with at least 70% lockup. I gotta wonder, what happened to the 30-50% or whatever is claimed as normal?? Anyway, if I didn't have to swap lanyard pin and spacer to keep colors matching, the swap would have taken just a couple minutes, as all I did was undo the pivot, and pull the blade/washer assembly out, and stuff it in the other set of handles. At any rate, the swap went without a hitch, and surprisingly, my Insingo went from a 70% lockup to about a 50% lockup, yet the plain stayed the same. It was about 70% before the swap, and I see no change in the lockup after either. So after all was said and done, I actually ended up with a better lockup post-swap on my Insingo. That's definitely a plus. Absolutely no blade play, and as you can see, the Insingo blade is perfectly centered as it was prior to the swap. Oh well, it's getting late here in Afghanistan, so I'm gonna just post the photos. Let me know what you think...

Oh yeah, I almost forgot... I was a little disappointed that my new knife didn't come with the blue cloth like my Insingo did. I thought this was standard on all models. Is it not?? Anyway, the shot without the blue cloth is showing both knives' lockup pre-swap.

 

[bhyde]

Looks great. Nice job!

 

[DBH]

Looks great!

 

[JNewell]

Congrats and good post.

On lockup, I thought it was 50-70%, but I found this in the FAQ:

The spec position for the lock is to cover 75% of the blade.

On the blue cloth, I bought a small micarta dated 2/11 and it had no cloth; just bought a large micarta dated late 11 and it did have the cloth, so I was wondering the same. Maybe the cloth comes with large but not small knives? Maybe it is totally random? Dunno, but I was curious as well.

By the way, I've decided the micarta is cool. Definitely a big user upgrade from the all-Ti slab scales in terms of gripability. :thumbup:

 

[KeithAM]

I've said this many times before--look at the stickies and you'll find in more than one place that lockup is spec's at 50-75%. That should have it's own sticky. In Chris Reeve's own words:

"The lock should engage at between 50% and 75% of travel. With the Umnumzaan, because the interface between the blade and the lock bar is a ceramic ball, it is the ball that must be at 50 – 75%. This will give the visual that the lock bar is further over than with a Sebenza."

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=730951

Beautiful knife, by the way. :thumbup:

 

[flipe8]

On lockup, I thought it was 50-70%, but I found this in the FAQ:

That's what I thought as well.

 

[ForestRoamer]

Congrats that you finally have the exact knife you wanted. As for me I thought I would like this combo but it doesn't really do much for me.

 

[atony]

Looks great, I really enjoyed the combination on my large Micarta/Insingo.

 

[Medic1210]

Thanks everyone. I'm definitely pleased with the results. I wasn't aware that 50-75% was normal. I thought I remembered everyone saying 35-50%. That's good, means both knives are perfectly in spec, as would be expected on a knife of this quality. Probably when I come home for R&R in March, I'll offer up the now plain Small 20 with S35VN blade and no stamp. Should be someone out there that doesn't mind the fact that it won't match the card.

 

[cmichael]

Oh yeah, I almost forgot... I was a little disappointed that my new knife didn't come with the blue cloth like my Insingo did. I thought this was standard on all models. Is it not?? Anyway, the shot without the blue cloth is showing both knives' lockup pre-swap.


I got my new Large Sebenza few day ago without the blue cloth, Call CRK, they send me the blue cloth, got it today is nice fit, wrap it the knife and put in the box, CRK is top notch customer service.

 

[KeithAM]

Congrats and good post.

On lockup, I thought it was 50-70%, but I found this in the FAQ:

Quote:
The spec position for the lock is to cover 75% of the blade.

Did you notice that was Anne writing in 1998?

The language I quote above from Chris is dated 2010.

Since we seem to get "Is my lockup normal? threads now and then, and there seems to have been some confusion on the subject, I PM'd CRK and asked if they'd create or approve a new sticky with the title "LOCK ENGAGEMENT ON SEBENZAS IS SPEC'D AT 50-75%"

 

[DallasSTB]

As much as I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, or disrespect someone whose body and mind are serving our country so proudly - I have to speak up. There's been a lot of enthusiasm recently about changing out various blades with more favored handles. Medic1210 - I really hope youll reconsider selling the Sebenza you refer to which has been made up from the parts you don't want. I'm sure your intentions are honorable and that you'd fully disclose all the facts about the knife, but what about the next person in line?

These knives are manufactured to within .0005 of an inch. That's one of the main reasons they cost so much. They are individually finished and fitted, then hand-checked for operation. When you swap parts all that goes away, as well as the fantastic CR warranty. Keeping knives original helps keep CR's warranty costs low, the aftermarket pool cleaner, and the next buyer satisfied.

Of course, they are your knives to do with as you wish, but I just wanted everyone to take 5 and think about this a bit.

Thanks all,

Steve

 

[JNewell]

wrong thread...

 

[BP Green]

As much as I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, or disrespect someone whose body and mind are serving our country so proudly - I have to speak up. There's been a lot of enthusiasm recently about changing out various blades with more favored handles. Medic1210 - I really hope youll reconsider selling the Sebenza you refer to which has been made up from the parts you don't want. I'm sure your intentions are honorable and that you'd fully disclose all the facts about the knife, but what about the next person in line?

These knives are manufactured to within .0005 of an inch. That's one of the main reasons they cost so much. They are individually finished and fitted, then hand-checked for operation. When you swap parts all that goes away, as well as the fantastic CR warranty. Keeping knives original helps keep CR's warranty costs low, the aftermarket pool cleaner, and the next buyer satisfied.

Of course, they are your knives to do with as you wish, but I just wanted everyone to take 5 and think about this a bit.

Thanks all,

Steve

Great post Steve. Great points, and very well said to boot. Thank you. . .:thumbup:

 

[Medic1210]

As much as I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, or disrespect someone whose body and mind are serving our country so proudly - I have to speak up. There's been a lot of enthusiasm recently about changing out various blades with more favored handles. Medic1210 - I really hope youll reconsider selling the Sebenza you refer to which has been made up from the parts you don't want. I'm sure your intentions are honorable and that you'd fully disclose all the facts about the knife, but what about the next person in line?

These knives are manufactured to within .0005 of an inch. That's one of the main reasons they cost so much. They are individually finished and fitted, then hand-checked for operation. When you swap parts all that goes away, as well as the fantastic CR warranty. Keeping knives original helps keep CR's warranty costs low, the aftermarket pool cleaner, and the next buyer satisfied.

Of course, they are your knives to do with as you wish, but I just wanted everyone to take 5 and think about this a bit.

Thanks all,

Steve

Hey Steve, I can appreciate the concern, but honestly I feel it's a non-issue. As I've mentioned many times prior to this, the mere fact that these knives are made to such tight tolerances means a part swap would cause less issues than one made to lesser tolerances because every single part is that much closer to being exactly the same dimensions. As for selling the knife, of course, I will disclose the fact the swap was done. As for the next person in line, well, I can't stress about the integrity of the person I sell the knife too. In regards to the warranty issue, I have to wonder how important it really is in the first place. I mean, I've owned knives for many years, apparently none of which were built to the same tight tolerances, and I've never had to utilize the warranty on any of them. I honestly doubt I'll ever need to use the CRK warranty. Have you ever read the guarantee? It clearly states that "Should this knife fail after purchase by original user..." Sounds to me like merely selling the knife to someone else voids the guarantee. Now does that mean CRK won't honor the guarantee? Doubtful. Besides, how many CRK knives are sold used without box or card in the first place? Does CRK require the warranty card, or the birth certificate card to arrive with the knife when warranty work is performed? I honestly don't feel any future owner of this or the other knife will have any issues with warranty from CRK, any more than all the other folks who've bought their knife used.

 

[marthinus]

I am glad it worked for you, however, Chris Reeve has stated that they do not like it being done. Regards to warranty, they still have the right to refuse to do any work on the knives as it is not how the knives were made and it is not a manufacturing issue.

Some further food for thought.

Having a lock fitted correctly and functioning correctly over years is a major accomplishment. A framelock has three points of contact, stop pin, pivot and then the lock. The major issue is to get the lock to engage on the furthest point of contact on the blade, this is difficult as a slipup (momentary loss of concentration) can cause blade role if the point of contact is to close to the pivot (this occurs on many cheaply made framelocks).

Chris Reeve gets his locks right with the ability of years of use the framelock engages the entire face of the lock. This means there is a broad area of contact with the lock face that is one of the most difficult things to accomplish.

Many people finish a framelock by adopting the lock face to suite the the blade. This causes troubles down the line, a few makers do the effort and adopt the blade area where the lock engages to suite the lock. Chris Reeve hand tunes each knife to fit each lock. Therefore, each lock is unique to each knife. Though it can look in spec for us, the knife can develop major issues down the line and if Chris Reeve does know the blade has been swapped he can refuse to do anything to the knife and then that person is screwed.

I am glad it worked for you and it does look great, but IMO it is not worth the risk of issues that can develop after years of use.

 

[DallasSTB]

Hey Mike. I greatly appreciate your viewpoint and your service, but I'll continue to respectfully disagree with you on this. However, I don't want to unnecessarily stir anything up so I'll just move on with this - historically part-swapping has been THE major cause of warranty issues at the Chris Reeve shop. That makes the costs for everyone go up, and makes buyers in aftermarket sales a little less secure. I just felt that the folks here should be aware of that point in making up their own minds.

 

[Medic1210]

I am glad it worked for you, however, Chris Reeve has stated that they do not like it being done.

I guess Chris lost the right to make that decision the moment I purchased it, and it became my knife... :wink: If 20 years down the road I have a problem and my warranty is voided, I guess I'll just have to fork over the dough to replace something myself. No biggie.

Regards to warranty, they still have the right to refuse to do any work on the knives as it is not how the knives were made and it is not a manufacturing issue.

You ever read the FAQ regarding Rick Hinderer's warranty in his forum? It states if you pimp your knife in any way, even replace the G-10 scale with one not made by him, your warranty is voided. They plainly say they won't even adjust, sharpen or refurb your knife if it's been pimped. As I've said many times already, a knife built to CRK's standards shouldn't have any issues to begin with. I've owned much cheaper knives, and never had any reason to use the warranty, so I guess I'm ok with taking my chances in this case.

Some further food for thought.

Having a lock fitted correctly and functioning correctly over years is a major accomplishment. A framelock has three points of contact, stop pin, pivot and then the lock. The major issue is to get the lock to engage on the furthest point of contact on the blade, this is difficult as a slipup (momentary loss of concentration) can cause blade role if the point of contact is to close to the pivot (this occurs on many cheaply made framelocks).

The fact that all parts of CRK knives are manufactured to 0.0005" tolerances ensures that each part is so close to identical to the next, all of those points will be virtually identical on all sebenzas.

I am glad it worked for you and it does look great, but IMO it is not worth the risk of issues that can develop after years of use.

I'm happy with it, and am glad I did it. If 20 years down the road, I have to pay for warranty work, or even a new knife all together, I'm fine with that. :thumbup:

 

[Medic1210]

Hey Mike. I greatly appreciate your viewpoint and your service, but I'll continue to respectfully disagree with you on this.

That's cool. Nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree.

historically part-swapping has been THE major cause of warranty issues at the Chris Reeve shop. That makes the costs for everyone go up

Is this an actual fact or is it assumed? Not trying to be argumentative, I honestly don't know either way, as I've not searched the forum. If CRK knows the parts were swapped (hence able to make that claim) and caused the warranty issue, do they still cover the knife?? If they don't cover the knife, then it shouldn't affect prices for us. As for prices increasing, I was under the impression that Sebenza prices have stayed pretty much rock steady since they were first made. Sure, they may have increased their prices a couple times to adjust for inflation and other manufacturing increases normal to any production industry, but from what I can remember since joining this forum, I don't recall any real increases other than what was supposed to go into effect Jan 1, 2011, which I still haven't seen, since I bought both Smalls after that date, and paid the same price as before that date. At any rate, I don't foresee swapping any more blades in the near future, and will most definitely inform the future buyer of my small plain that the sale will most likely be an AS-IS purchase since CRK may not work on it. I'm sure there's a buyer out there that won't care, and will give it a good home.

 

[DallasSTB]

That's cool. Nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree.

Is this an actual fact or is it assumed?

I know that you're not trying to be arguementative. You always sound like a stand-up guy whose heart and mind are well-founded. And I disagree with my friends all the time .

When you have a chance when you are back home, you might call the shop and ask for Anne or Chris. They can fill you in on this issue better than me. If you get Chris, I would recommend NOT telling him you are swapping anything, however, and set aside at least 30 minutes to talk.

With regard to the pricing for Sebenzas, just know that the Reeve's try very hard to keep prices at the same level as long as possible. The first efforts they always make are to cut costs, then pass along price increases as a last resort. For example, ever wonder why we don't still have 2 styles of Sebenza's to choose from? We could have both if people wanted to pay $500 for a plain one, but that's not how they work. Another example is the Umnumzaan. It's a progressive step in many areas, but with the ceramic ball detent, lack of a pivot bushing, and a non-radiused spine, it is less expensive to produce and thus reasonably priced to the consumers. Cutting costs while maintaining quality is one of the things that CR wrestles with constantly.

This is the type of healthy conversation that really makes these forums work, do you think?

Take care brother