? for CS Rep about the 1917 Frontier Bowie...

PocketKnifeJimmy

PocketKnifeJimmy

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Aug 4, 2013
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A discussion on another post concerning this model, brought out the fact that Cold Steel was planning on changing the steel from 1055 to 1085 carbon steel. My question is, being that the Frontier Bowie is sent out with a dated British Proof Test Certificate, (nice touch, I may add), is there any particular date found on these certificates that would safely place the cutoff between the 1055 and the 1085 models? Thank you in advance ☺
 
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The British proof tests were about how far the sword could be bent toward the flats and spring straight against how much weight, and that sort of thing, not about carbon content.
That said, I don't see how knives can pass the British sword proof tests.
 
Well, my question concerns using the date that these "proof tests" have on them, and if that date could help determine if a knife was made after or before the metal switch.

As for the test being legitimately performed on these Bowies... I don't know, but the certificate does come along with them, (or atleast it did with mine). Mine was dated January 2014, which would certainly place it within their making them in 1055.

So, for example, if one purchases one of these knives where the proof certificate has a date of, let's say, March 2015... Would that be one made after the switch from 1055 to 1085? That is what this question is aimed at.

And again, as for the British Proof Test being legitimate or not... I had my doubts too, but can't imagine Cold Steel putting themselves in a position where they could be easily targetted for untrue claims by sending then out with these certificates if they are not true. I do admit that I cringed when seeing what the test process entails, especially with the Bowie not being anywhere near the length of an average sword. Maybe the CS Rep could comment on this "Proof Testing" as well.
 
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OK, it appears that was a rolling change in materials in the second quarter of this year.
All blades from then onwards will the 1085
This was after catalogs were printed but the change will be reflected in next year's print materials etc.
Thanks!
 
Mine is dated "31 OCT 2014" and signed by "Shiva Joshi". I would think that the British Proof Test was only done so far as banging the knife on the wood block four different ways.

As far as bending, I think I remember that the BPT was supposed to be 20 degrees of flex and returning to straight. On the certificate, it's got the sword version of 5 inches either way. That's gotta be too much for a knife. 20 degrees of flex I can see, but not 5 inches of bend for a knife, which would be way more than 20 degrees, since the knife is shorter, right? If it could bend 5 inches and still come back to true, I'd think it'd be too flexible, not rigid enough to be useful as a knife.
 
Yup, so it safely places your Frontier Bowie as being a 1055 version (as mine is).
I was very tempted to order another one of these knives to add the 1085 carbon steel version to my collection. But, there may be quite a few 1055 versions still left in dealer inventories. That means maybe winding up getting another 1055 version, which I already have. I'll likely just have to wait some more time in making that decision of ordering another. I too wonder what part of the proof test was actually done, and how it may have been applied to this shorter than sword knife. The other new curve ball in all of this, is the 1085 now being used. I mean, the 1055 carbon steel is pretty well known for being able to be made as a pretty springy product, where as the higher carbon 1085 will likely give up alot of that springy-ness for a better edge retention.
I love knowing as much about my collection as possible... I usually find such info interesting and facinating ☺
 
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Hmm, given the choice, Id choose the 1055 for this knife. I'd take the toughness, and springiness over the hardness and edge retention
 
1055 vs 1085 does not determine the toughness or edge retention, the springiness or the hardness. Those are functions of the heat treat and tempering. 1055 is often hardened to Rc60 or even as high as 64. That gives 1055 great edge retention. The reason it's not brittle at that extreme hardness is because the heat treat is shallow. So the softer core allows the knife to have great toughness. The only certain shortcoming of 1055 is poor resistance to corrosion. It rusts easily.

We know that 1085 has more carbon, but without details about the heat treat and tempering, it would be hard to say that 1085 will be harder, softer, tougher, more brittle or anything else. You just wouldn't know.
 
jeffright said:
1055 vs 1085 does not determine the toughness or edge retention, the springiness or the hardness. Those are functions of the heat treat and tempering. 1055 is often hardened to Rc60 or even as high as 64. That gives 1055 great edge retention. The reason it's not brittle at that extreme hardness is because the heat treat is shallow. So the softer core allows the knife to have great toughness. The only certain shortcoming of 1055 is poor resistance to corrosion. It rusts easily.

We know that 1085 has more carbon, but without details about the heat treat and tempering, it would be hard to say that 1085 will be harder, softer, tougher, more brittle or anything else. You just wouldn't know.
Click to expand...

The 1055 has less carbon, and I was under the belief that the higher carbon 1085 steel would be the more susceptible metal to rust? So is it the other way around... Where the higher carbon is less prone to rust?
 
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I didn't mean to compare 1055 to 1085 for rust resistance. They both rust easily. The amount one rusts more easily than the other is pointless. There is no practical condition where one will rust, and the other not.
 
I'm really glad to have added a Cold Steel 1917 Frontier Bowie to my "Man Gadget Collection". I had also been thinking about possibly ordering another, (I surely don't mind some duplicates within my collection when they are extra nice products). So, I went ahead and bit the bullet today by ordering another. I'm hoping that it also comes with the "proof test certificate", and that it is dated beyond the second quarter of this year, (to more likely place it in the 1085 carbon steel category). I'd like to have a specimen of both the 1055 & 1085, but, in the end, as long as it's a nice specimen, I won't be too upset in owning another original 1055 Frontier Bowies... I find this model very enticing ☺

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