For the Feint of Heart or Masking One's Emotions

[Kevin the grey]

It has been mentioned here that a swordsman will often feint or shift his foot so as to force his opponent out of position. This being especially effective upon those whose foremost training is in other disciplines.

There is a co-relation between this and common street brawling. You can goad ones assailant into a hasty ill thought of move. Further, a skilled debater may so judge anothers countenance so as to know a move is coming aforehand.

I have heard that a whitening or a tightening around the eyes foretells action. Along with this a change in the complexion itself may herald synapses clicking into place as in the decks being cleared for action.

While it would be hard to read a man when he is wearing a protective mask there must be many "tells" which can give him away.

Are you allowed to converse with ones opponent in fencing. If not direct communication you must be allowed the liberty of some kind of verbal expression. Certainly a gasp may escape ones lips when thrusting or parrying.

It only stands to reason that the redirection of ones energy is not always accomplished in silence . Are no words permitted at all? Not the tiniest utterance which could be used to goad,or at least to unsettle one's adversary.

Ungentlemanly? Perhaps. I think the term gentleman is often misundestood, They are not always gentle. They have just refined their methods of torture.

 

[gravertom]

I don't remember the rule,per se, on that score. There certainly was a lot of expression, especially various French or Hungarian sounding vocalizations.

"Aylah!", "Umm Pah!" or something like those, were heard often.

I heard people talking to themselves quite often after a touch, ("boy, that was dumb," etc...)but seldom directly to each other. Never in a taunting fashion.

I know fencing has changed a lot since the 80's. What with trash talking so prevalent in some other sports, maybe it is time for it to appear in fencing too.



Tom

PS Didn't Musashi frown on too much outward display, both visually in ones clothing and equipment, as well as in ones talk?

 

[Kevin the grey]

Musashi? beyond me sir. It may be the type of education I received where I came upon my ir-reverent behavior. I was brought up thinking fisticuffs were uncouth. My earlier years of schooling only served to reinforce this.

It was when another school was closed and those boys were bussed to ours that my education truly began. Rules of engagement were rather a thing of the past. Some of these boys must have been held back either that or there was something in the water in their locality. Bigger, heavier,more mature in a brutish sort of way. But I digress.

It very well may be that outward displays of chi are a sign of immaturity.
I have certainly not progressed beyond expressing myself both vocally and physically. I have not even mastered the "silent scream" yet.

It would be good to learn more of Mr. Musashi.

 

[Ad Astra]

Musashi? beyond me sir. It may be the type of education I received where I came upon my ir-reverent behavior. I was brought up thinking fisticuffs were uncouth. My earlier years of schooling only served to reinforce this.

It was when another school was closed and those boys were bussed to ours that my education truly began. Rules of engagement were rather a thing of the past. Some of these boys must have been held back either that or there was something in the water in their locality. Bigger, heavier,more mature in a brutish sort of way. But I digress.

It very well may be that outward displays of chi are a sign of immaturity.
I have certainly not progressed beyond expressing myself both vocally and physically. I have not even mastered the "silent scream" yet.

It would be good to learn more of Mr. Musashi.

Required reading for anyone who wants to master anything.

http://www.samurai.com/5rings/

"Musashi is known to the Japanese as "Kinsei", that is, "Sword Saint". Go Rin No Sho heads every Kendo bibliography, being unique among books of martial art in that it deals with both the strategy of warfare and the methods of single combat in exactly the same way. The book is not a thesis on strategy, it is in Musashi's words "a guide for men who want to learn strategy" and, as a guide always leads, so the contents are always beyond the student's understanding. The more one reads the book the more one finds in its pages."

Mike

 

[Kevin the grey]

Fascinating. It is also worthy of note that the elements are treated as part of a balance with the exception that where one would think of spirit they place the void.

This is just at first glance . I would not be so disrespectful as to make this observation except as a point of interest.

Do you think the difference is that between Western and Eastern philosophy?

 

[richardallen]

Dunno about fencing, but I am pretty decent at masking emotions :foot:

I dont consider it an art, rather a bad habit, most at the time.

Keno

 

[smurray]

...

Are you allowed to converse with ones opponent in fencing. If not direct communication you must be allowed the liberty of some kind of verbal expression. Certainly a gasp may escape ones lips when thrusting or parrying.

...

No, you are not allowed to talk while actively fencing. Gasps, or similar sounds resulting simply from physical exertion are fine. Also accepted are the victorious noises made immediately after you score, as well as talking to (or yelling at) yourself between touches. But, I have seen yellow cards issued for any voluntary, audible vocalizations, whether words or just noises, that are made while fencing. Obscenities issued at any time during a bout will also most likely earn a penalty. I can't for the life of me find this in the USFA rule book, but having seen it enforced more than once, I suspect that it falls under the catchall penalty of "disorderly fencing."

Don't know about smack talking off the strip. If a ref decided that it was out of hand, he/she could certainly issue warnings/penalties for disturbing order. The refs have a fair amount of power there.

 

[Bobwhite]

I think there is something to your void/spirit, east/west observation. I don't know enough about it to hypothesize much past that. Both schools of thought are going to have many variants in themselves too.

 

[Kevin the grey]

I think there is something to your void/spirit, east/west observation. I don't know enough about it to hypothesize much past that. Both schools of thought are going to have many variants in themselves too.

That is proabably why Orientals don,t like hotdogs..........

"Make me one with nothing" just doesn,t seem to sound right.

Unless its a plane dog.

 

[DannyinJapan]

Fencing is a sport. There is nothing wrong with being a sport, but it means there are rules.
Musashi had nothing to do with sports, he was a killer. He used psyops of every kind.
He would show up late for challenge duels, dressed like a bum, his hair sticking out, using weapons other than a sword, screaming insults, whatever he could think of to upset his opponents.
Once they got upset, their "mushin" was gone and they were easily defeated.

It's hard to catch, but the common translation of the Book of Five Rings uses the word "fencing" to express kenjutsu.
In the old days, kenjutsu didn't just mean "sword fighting" (which was not like the sport we call fencing) it meant fighting -to the death- with weapons.

 

[Kevin the grey]

Take this from my point of view. I like fencing. It is a sport of individual achievement. It involves long relatively pointy things with which you may impale your opponents pride.

I like the capable feeling it gives to wield a fine crafted tool of any sort. This is with no disrespect to the artistry involved.

I also like tactics. They are so much better than base emotion driven responses. That is not to say I am good at it. That is why I would llike to study their application. I appreciate the attaining of one's goals through whatever means the situation demands. As long as I am prepared to accept the consequences of my actions.

I think I may be comparing apples to oranges here. How would Musashi View"The Art of War"? I do see areas where tactical applications coincide. Is there more in both works that would co-relate?

Is one better suited to the individual? I am adaptable in this regards. Sometimes I can see applications where group tactics may apply to the individual. Sometimes one man can be an army. Sometimes one man must be an army.