For those that say Benchmade is not a good value.

Keyman

Platinum Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2001
Messages
5,230
All my BM's have come to me with no major issues.
My M390 contego was slightly off center; but I was able to fix/adjust that.
I have purchased two other sets of Ritters from previous LE runs; M2's and M4's (mini & full size)
and both times they cost me more money than these new Ritters do.
Yes.........I said these new Ritters cost me less than the previous LE Ritters did. :rolleyes:
 
Joined
Mar 29, 2007
Messages
3,201
G10, Axis lock, BM Life Sharp and replacement program with M390 for that price? Good deal indeed.
 
Joined
May 18, 1999
Messages
1,706
Don't trust that the heat treatment will be any good. Actually, I don't really believe that anything about the knife will be any good except for the lock.
Then you're just speaking out of your [ahem], as Benchmade does a great job with their HT. 60-62 is just right for M390 if you want a balance of toughness and edge retention. A couple years back, the HT company they used had some issues with M390 warping upon HT and Benchmade rejected a lot of blades because of it (they never made it onto knives). Once that issue was worked through, they haven't had a single HT problem.

As for not liking the Noryl GTX, it is incredibly tough. I don't like how it feels with hollow scales and only partial liners, but I have yet to see a Griptilian handle break. It may feel cheap, but it is not.

I think BM is a good value, but won't buy a Ritter because for some stupid reason BM refuses to come out with more thumb hole options, including these.
No thumb hole on the Ritter is Doug's decision, as it is his blade design, not Benchmade's. For a hard use blade design, the last thing you want is a big hole near the spine to compromise blade strength.

Huh. Seems like right before the price increase kicked in, I bought a pair of 586s, one for me and one for the SO, for ~ $140 apiece, and a 581 for myself at $145.

Full liners, G10 & aluminum scales & bolsters, assist and a safety if you want it and you can remove them if you don't.

Now, for $130, I get 3" of M390 with full liners and Noryl GTX, or for $140 3.4" of M390 with partial liners and Noryl GTX.


I'm not trying to say these are bad knives and I'm sure they'll work absolutely wonderfully. M390 is easily my favorite folding knife steel and I've had nothing but excellent experiences with BM's heat treat of it. But compared to what you could get from them before they artificially kicked up their prices - I'm having a harder and harding time seeing the "good value."
The value in the Ritter knives is the blade shape. For what the Ritter knife is meant for, the blade shape is superior to the Barrage (and I have both a 581 and 586). I wish it came with G10 scales instead of Noryl, for the added rigidity, but Doug is trying to keep the price down to make it more affordable for more people.

The only concern I have is the heat treat, if they are not getting them hard enough even unobtanium steel sucks.
Oh, they've got the HT of M390 nailed down pretty well, with the 810-1401, the 710-1401, the 484, the 581, and 586 under their belt.
 
Joined
Dec 8, 2013
Messages
909
With the $90+ entry level Grips, it is about time they throw a dog a bone. They are still not nearly the value of Spyderco. I bought a Grip for $72 a couple of years ago and that was a decent deal. Spyderco is coming out with the $85 S35vn Native which is an amazing deal.

The fact that it is announcement worthy that BM is finally giving a good deal just shows how much BM isn't a good overall value in the big picture.
 

Skywalker31

Basic Member
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
532
All my BM's have come to me with no major issues.
My M390 contego was slightly off center; but I was able to fix/adjust that.
I have purchased two other sets of Ritters from previous LE runs; M2's and M4's (mini & full size)
and both times they cost me more money than these new Ritters do.
Yes.........I said these new Ritters cost me less than the previous LE Ritters did. :rolleyes:

Aren't these the new regular production Ritters, though?
 

Skywalker31

Basic Member
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
532
The value in the Ritter knives is the blade shape. For what the Ritter knife is meant for, the blade shape is superior to the Barrage (and I have both a 581 and 586). I wish it came with G10 scales instead of Noryl, for the added rigidity, but Doug is trying to keep the price down to make it more affordable for more people.

What are the changes the Ritter shape makes? Just looking at it compared to a 551/6, it looks like the flat grind goes up higher, the thumb ramp is a little longer, the drop point more robust with more material behind it, and the edge might have a bit more belly to it. Reading the spiel on KW, this is supposed to be more of a harder use, outdoors version (literally a "RSK": Ritter Survival Knife)? So from that context, I can definitely see wanting a stronger tip and more of a thumb ramp compared to the regular "Modified Drop Point" Grip. The 552/558 are not any thicker than the 581/586, and the Barrages have a pretty darn high flat grind too, so I don't think the Ritters are going to outslice them by much, but I'll give you that the Ritters have more material around the point and a thumb ramp - as you say, for certain applications those can be quite valuable.

Again, I absolutely love Benchmade's M390. No complaints there, whatsoever. And I think the Grip is a great working design - it fills your hand well, those scales really do grip well, and they can stand up to an awful lot. So believe me, I'm really not trying to knock the knife, and I think that anyone who gets one with the intention to work with it will not be disappointed.

The point I'm trying to make is this: the regular 551 with 154CM was something like a $75 knife before the new price enforcement. I am not convinced that a different blade shape and M390 for $140 make it "a good value." I'm not even trying to say that it's a bad value. Just that the cost of the current 552 is almost a 100% increase over where the 551 was this time last year. For me, that definitely gives me pause.

(also I'm sorry for your sake that we're not talking about a 950 in M390 right now, loony. :D )

Edit - Look, if you need any evidence of how artificial the whole pricing thing is, the 950BK-1401 is currently up for less than a regular 950BK at enforced price. Limited run, better steel, $3 cheaper than a 950 and $16 cheaper than a 950BK. 35% off retail vs 15% off. Either the dealer is intentionally bleeding themselves or they think that the proper price to move them at the speed they want and make the profit they want is seriously that much below where the enforced price would put them. That just seems insane.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Feb 12, 2012
Messages
1,078
All my BM's have come to me with no major issues.
My M390 contego was slightly off center; but I was able to fix/adjust that.
I have purchased two other sets of Ritters from previous LE runs; M2's and M4's (mini & full size)
and both times they cost me more money than these new Ritters do.
Yes.........I said these new Ritters cost me less than the previous LE Ritters did. :rolleyes:
Figured you'd be all over these lol You've probably got the best collection if Griptilians around :thumbup:
 

skyhorse

Gold Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2010
Messages
12,293
That is what I call speculation or uninformed opinion. I've used a TSEK in M390 for months after I bought it and there was absolutely nothing wrong with the heat treat. The reason I've seen as to why people say there is no real value there is the unannounced price jump, consistently off centered blades, asymmetrical grinds pictured on knives, folders with notable lock rock out of the box. All issues may or may not be deal breakers, some people don't care others lose their appetite for days and struggle with these issues. .
Yeah the huge price jump was the last straw for me.:thumbdn: I just enjoy the knives I already own from B/M but my money has gone elsewhere.:)
 

miltmaldo

Gold Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2012
Messages
3,351
So if Benchmade can make the Ritter with the m390 for $145 and that's a good value then I see no value in the S30V for $140 . Mmmm I guess you prove a god point :confused:
 

Skywalker31

Basic Member
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
532
Yeah the huge price jump was the last straw for me.:thumbdn: I just enjoy the knives I already own from B/M but my money has gone elsewhere.:)

I really hate to say it but this is kind of where I'm at. About the only things that could change my mind on that would be a new run of the Ares, a 943-1 after the style of the 940-1, or a 710-4 after the 940-1.
 
Joined
Oct 17, 2012
Messages
2,163
With a price increase of just $5 going from S30V to M390 it means...

A) their S30V was overpriced.
B) their M390 underpriced.
C) something else.

:confused:
 
Joined
Nov 18, 2005
Messages
7,424
I have dealt with the Benchmade customer service, warranty and repair on several occasions. One of the very best out there. I may dislike their MAP enforcement and some QC issues but I have nothing but good things to say about their CS.

Agreed. I sent a knife in to Benchmade very recently, for the first time in about 10 years. The package was delivered to them Friday afternoon. They shipped the knife back to me on Tuesday. That's superb turnaround.
 
Joined
Nov 18, 2005
Messages
7,424
With a price increase of just $5 going from S30V to M390 it means...

A) their S30V was overpriced.
B) their M390 underpriced.
C) something else.

:confused:

I think the answer is (c). Pricing of the Ritters is probably outside BM's normal pricing, since the knives are made for an outside customer and sold through a single dealer.
 
Joined
Feb 28, 2011
Messages
17,686
I think the answer is (c). Pricing of the Ritters is probably outside BM's normal pricing, since the knives are made for an outside customer and sold through a single dealer.

Yeah, it occurs to me that they are close to being OEM on this particular knife, and I'm wondering if the MAP policy applies to it.
 
Joined
Mar 26, 2013
Messages
3,544
Yeah, it occurs to me that they are close to being OEM on this particular knife, and I'm wondering if the MAP policy applies to it.

That's possible, and if I was in the market for a "tacticool" folder, this new BM would be right up there. From my perspective, the knife truly presents as an excellent value, especially when you compare it to the so many over-priced competitor equivalents; made in America is a bonus.
 

skyhorse

Gold Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2010
Messages
12,293
I really hate to say it but this is kind of where I'm at. About the only things that could change my mind on that would be a new run of the Ares, a 943-1 after the style of the 940-1, or a 710-4 after the 940-1.
Part of it is the increase in price but a lot has to do with the way they did it.On the day after Thanksgiving when many things go on sale BOOM,Benchmade knife prices went up about 25% plus.I do enjoy the Benchmade knives that were purchased before they did this but since then I've found much better value in other brands such as Spyderco and ZT.
 
Joined
Jan 22, 2013
Messages
386
I just bought one last week. Kicking myself now. Might have to buy the M390 as well.

Same here. Got my s30v Ritter in, the next day I see the announcement about the m390s. Gonna be a minute before I can buy another new knife, but the good news is these aren't limited so there's plenty of time.
 
Joined
May 18, 1999
Messages
1,706
What are the changes the Ritter shape makes? Just looking at it compared to a 551/6, it looks like the flat grind goes up higher, the thumb ramp is a little longer, the drop point more robust with more material behind it, and the edge might have a bit more belly to it. Reading the spiel on KW, this is supposed to be more of a harder use, outdoors version (literally a "RSK": Ritter Survival Knife)? So from that context, I can definitely see wanting a stronger tip and more of a thumb ramp compared to the regular "Modified Drop Point" Grip. The 552/558 are not any thicker than the 581/586, and the Barrages have a pretty darn high flat grind too, so I don't think the Ritters are going to outslice them by much, but I'll give you that the Ritters have more material around the point and a thumb ramp - as you say, for certain applications those can be quite valuable.
The Ritter Grip won't outslice a 581, but which would you rather baton through a small branch to make kindling if all you had was your folder? The Barrage and Ritter are meant for two completely different applications, so comparing them really doesn't work.

The point I'm trying to make is this: the regular 551 with 154CM was something like a $75 knife before the new price enforcement. I am not convinced that a different blade shape and M390 for $140 make it "a good value." I'm not even trying to say that it's a bad value. Just that the cost of the current 552 is almost a 100% increase over where the 551 was this time last year. For me, that definitely gives me pause.
The Ritter knives were never available with the hidden discount like the regular production knives were. Their cost didn't change from pre- to post- MAP enforcement.

(also I'm sorry for your sake that we're not talking about a 950 in M390 right now, loony. :D )
Thanks, I appreciate that. I'm beginning to think Benchmade views the Rift as the red-headed stepchild.

I think the answer is (c). Pricing of the Ritters is probably outside BM's normal pricing, since the knives are made for an outside customer and sold through a single dealer.
Yeah, it occurs to me that they are close to being OEM on this particular knife, and I'm wondering if the MAP policy applies to it.
Actually, MAP was always enforced on the RSK, as the hidden discount was never allowed for Ritter knives. The regular production Grips have just increased in price closer to where Ritter Grips have always been.
 
Joined
Nov 21, 2013
Messages
1,818
My only real excuse not to get in on this is that I prefer the standard Griptilian blade shape (me and about two other people lol).
Been wanting a 556 M390 for a long time. They had a very small batch of it a few years ago. This is very awesome still, good thing that it should be around for a long time with KW.
 
Top