For those who have ESEE4 AND HRLM or ESEE5 AND RMD

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gofastalot

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Jun 4, 2002
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Which do you prefer? I'm looking to replace my Bravo 1 SS with something of a similar size or even slightly larger up to 4.5" and am looking for something that is a good cutter (regular knife duties) and that is also tough and has a comfortable handle. I decided on an ESEE 4 but now I've been looking at a Swamp Rat HRLM. Also, I'm looking for something in the 5" size and decided on an ESEE 5 but now I'm looking at a Swamp Rat RatManDu. The 5" knife will be a vehicle knife, BOB, and perhaps a hiking knife while the smaller one will be a camping companion with a chopper or ax and just also an all around utility blade.

Are these knives so similar to each other that I should just buy on looks or are there functional differences I should consider? Or should I just buy them all?:D
 
Just wondering, but why are you replacing the Bravo ?

Reason I ask is, it's on my list of knives to get.


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There are a few big differences in those knives in my opinion. The ESEE-5 grind geometry makes its cutting characteristics way different than the others, and the grinds on the Swamp rat stuff is different still from the ESEE-4, though the blade thickness's are close in the pairs you selected, the RMD is notably slimmer than the ESEE-5.

Knives that different should really require a little time in hand for you to make an informed choice that's right for you.
 
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gofastalot said:
Are these knives so similar to each other that I should just buy on looks or are there functional differences I should consider? Or should I just buy them all?:D
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Like Cobra said...it all depends on the reasons why you want to replace the Bravo 1. There are smaller and larger versions of it.
 
I had an ESEE 4 but not the 5, and have a couple each of the HRLM and RMD.

I find the handle design on the HRLM and RMD to be very comfortable. The ESEE 4 felt too small for my hand--obviously no comment on the 5 as I've never handled one.

I like the RMD the best. The extra blade length and choil you can choke up on place it ahead of the HRLM, IMO, not that the HRLM isn't excellent.

One thing to consider is that I believe the Swamp Rat Company Store still has some RMDs ready to ship. Once they're gone, you're stuck buying them on the secondary market at higher prices.
 
All the named knives are good, but will feel quite different from your Bravo 1. Bravo 1 will be the best cutter among them. Also all four have choils (something to consider). Swamprats are the toughest. Edge will be quite thick (could be thinned out and/or convexed), very comfy handle. Esee are less expensive and come with a sheath. Another option to consider is Fallkniven S1.
Figure out why you want to replace your B1 and make the choice.
 
I'm getting out of the Bravo because of the thumb ramp and the type of wood I bought it with. It was somewhat of an impulse buy and if I get anywhere near what I paid for it I can fund a 4"+ and a 5" knife. I tend to like longer knives and normally carry 4" folders and really like 4.5"-5" fixed as a "standard" sized knife. The ESEE 4 might be a little small for me but at $100 I can afford to try it and get most of my money back if I sell it. The Swamp Rats are a little harder to obtain, but I will make my money back if I don't like them. I'm moving more in the direction of getting them all and then flipping two of them.
 
that's a tough one. i think i'd go with the rc4 - because of it's better cutting performance. in my opinion the edge on the hrlm is to thick... using the lansky system i had to grind one or two hours the get a better edge on that sucker.

btw: eric of swamp rat told me 6 weeks ago that the hrlm is now discontinued.
 
jfive said:
that's a tough one. i think i'd go with the rc4 - because of it's better cutting performance. in my opinion the edge on the hrlm is to thick... using the lansky system i had to grind one or two hours the get a better edge on that sucker.

btw: eric of swamp rat told me 6 weeks ago that the hrlm is now discontinued.
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You can always thin an edge--but changing a handle is a lot more difficult. I find the handle on the HRLM and RMD more comfortable than the ESEE 4, which I found too small (and you can't change that).

I think they still have a few RMDs at the Company Store. Once they're gone, they're gone, because they won't be made again for years if ever. If you get one now, even if you use it, you will likely get every penny out of it if you decide to sell because the secondary market is significantly higher.

The ESEE 4 and 5 will probably be in production for a long time.
 
KeithAM said:
You can always thin an edge--but changing a handle is a lot more difficult.
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I'm aware of that ;)! But like I said it also takes quite some time to regrind the bevel on the hrlm with devices like lansky and stuff. Plus there are some custome handles available for the esee 4...the knife connection offers them. Maybe these scales are big enough for you.

What I forgot to mention: gofastalot, if i was you i'd stick with the bravo I - maybe the cheaper a2 version. Out of the Esee4/HRLM/Bravo I, I like the Bravo I the most.
 
I own the Bravo1 in A2, the HRLM and the RMD, and my favorite by far is the RMD. If you're trying to decide between ESEE and SwampRat offerings and are savy at reselling, I'd recommend buying both, testing how they feel and do some light cutting, then sell off 2nd place.

The HRLM is similar in size to the Bravo1. It has a thicker edge (as others mentioned), so find one reground/reprofiled if you can or do this yourself if you prefer better slicing to edge toughness. BUT the HRLM (and ESEE-4) has a slimmer profile which I have found makes it better at splitting wood and general handling, and it is more comfortable (and has better grip) in my hand. It is a very tough knife, I have more confidence in it than the Bravo1 (which has a very thin edge).

The RMD is an excellent length, is well balanced, has a working choil, feels light in the hand and handles smoothly. Once I handled mine, no other knife has felt as comfortable, secure, reliable, and the RMD does not disappoint in regard to performance. Like the HRLM, it is a tough knife. The extra length and slimmer profile make it many times more useful than the Bravo1 (and potentially the ESEE-5) for heavier tasks.
Edge-retention is phenomenal! The RMD I received also suffered from an overly thick edge, but reprofiling has not noticeably reduced edge toughness and retention. If you buy one from the company store, ask Eric to send one with a lower bevel-angle - he has had customers send him back knives for reprofiling if unsatisfied, part of the warranty.

The handles on the HRLM and RMD are exactly the same, very comfortable and 'grippy', preferable to the ESEE handles imho (too blocky). Azwelke makes excellent sheaths for both at a very reasonable price and will do custom jobs - he made my HRLM sheath compatible with the ESEE attachments. Another option is the Spec-Ops Combat Master (small size) and other offerings - remold the platic insert to suit either the HRLM or RMD, both will fit (the RMD perfectly).

Neither SwampRat nor ESEE knives are as 'pretty' as BRKT knives (coated vs satin finish, which seems to account for much of the price difference). The HRLM and RMD probably have thicker factory edges than ESEE knives (certainly my Izula was thinner) and are harder to sharpen imho, but also have better edge-retention. They are phenomenal tools that only increase in value over time. That said, ESEE is less expensive and also very reliable - if they feel comfortable in your hand, you won't have gone wrong making the purchase.

Okay, that's a long enough post. Good luck on recouping your Bravo1 $$$.;)
 
I've held all of those but the HRLM. I much prefer the RMD to the rest. It's just a perfect design for that category IMO.
 
I have the Bravo 1, and a ESEE 4. I added the G-10 scales, from TKC, to the 4, and it's now about as thick as the B1's handle. Not quite as long, but thicker, and contoured. They cost about $50, but if you have larger hands, it makes a difference.
Have you used your Bravo 1, and is it the new CPM 154 version?

Part of your decision should be based on how you treat knives. Some guys have higher expectations, and are rough on their gear.
I would not be too hard on my Bravo 1, it's a cutting tool. It's not a prybar. I would baton sparingly, just to keep from bending the thin edge.
If you're even considering the ESEE 5, look at the BK2 as well. Especially if it's going to be a "truck knife" as you mentioned.
 
Thanks for all the posts so far. I have a belt sander with belts up to 1200 grit and I will be getting a leather belt soon so I can reprofile and sharpen pretty quickly. What's more of a concern is the handle, toughness, and balance.

The Bravo1 handle seems OK but I haven't used it yet. I'm more concerned with the toughness, the type of wood, and the thumb ramp. I'd initially liked the thumb ramp but after holding it for a while I decided I don't. I know I can send it off to BRKT to have the ramp removed but that's only one of my concerns. It is an SS model, which is reportedly less tough than the A2 version. I'm not a fan of the brass bolts and would prefer stainless steel but it is still a great looking knife. I think a user would be A2 and Miracta, G10 or a wood like LV or DI. I think I bought an expensive safe queen instead with a burl handle and SS.

I see a lot of love on the forums for the RMD and the ESEE4 but not so much for the HRLM or the ESEE5. The ESEE5 seems like a nuclear tough piece of steel but not a lot of people rave about its cutting ability, same goes for the HRLM.

Does the RMD give up anything to the ESEE5 (besides the glass breaker and a sheath)?
 
Based on what you have said in this thread I'd encourage you to look at the Ratmandu. I have a RMD as well as the HRLM. Both excellent knives but I find the HRLM to be kind of overshadowed by the RMD. I have decided to reprofile my HRLM and make it a more dedicated hunting knife while using my RMD as my woods beater/do anything knife.

If you want to compare the ESEE5 to a Swamprat offering I think the chopweiler kind of blows it away but it's also kind of an unfair comparison.

Don't get me wrong... ESEE knives are fantastic knives particularly in their price range but the handles on the ESEE4 don't work for me as well as the Swamprat handles.
 
gofastalot said:
Thanks for all the posts so far. I have a belt sander with belts up to 1200 grit and I will be getting a leather belt soon so I can reprofile and sharpen pretty quickly. What's more of a concern is the handle, toughness, and balance.

The Bravo1 handle seems OK but I haven't used it yet. I'm more concerned with the toughness, the type of wood, and the thumb ramp. I'd initially liked the thumb ramp but after holding it for a while I decided I don't. I know I can send it off to BRKT to have the ramp removed but that's only one of my concerns. It is an SS model, which is reportedly less tough than the A2 version. I'm not a fan of the brass bolts and would prefer stainless steel but it is still a great looking knife. I think a user would be A2 and Miracta, G10 or a wood like LV or DI. I think I bought an expensive safe queen instead with a burl handle and SS.

I see a lot of love on the forums for the RMD and the ESEE4 but not so much for the HRLM or the ESEE5. The ESEE5 seems like a nuclear tough piece of steel but not a lot of people rave about its cutting ability, same goes for the HRLM.

Does the RMD give up anything to the ESEE5 (besides the glass breaker and a sheath)?
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It's worth mentioning that if you send your Bravo back to to Bark River they will grind the thumb ramp off for the cost of shipping (about $12). I think the Bravo will be the better cutter out of all of them. I don't have any Swamp Rat knives but I do have a whole bunch of RAT/ESEE knives. If you are looking for truck knife the RC/ESEE-5 is hard to beat in my eyes. It is a beast of a knife and while being very thick they come deceptively sharp. ESEE's 1095 hold an edge quite well and is easy to bring back to shaving sharp. I keep mine in my truck bag.

If you have really big hands the handles on the RC-4 might be a little small but my RC-4 gets more use than any of my other fixed blades. It's affordable enough to not baby, especially with the no questions asked warranty. Same great steel as the 5. I haven't tried the custom handles but I've heard lots of good things if the factory ones are too small for you.

If I were you, I'd first have the the ramp ground off your Bravo and give it another chance. The rampless ones are always sought after and you probably won't loose to much if you decide to sell it. If you do send it you can ask them to thicken up the edge as well, if you think it's too thin. There are guys out there that will rehandle it for a decent price as well if you don't like the wood. Then give ESEE a try.
 
Well, the HRLM is hard to come by but if I see one for a good price I may snag it although it does seem like a very wide blade for a short knife - I think the RMD may be a better slicer. The ESEE 4 I'm still on the fence, I may get one just to check it out. I picked up an RMD and like it a lot and I may pick up an ESEE 5 (I'm pretty sure I'm going to try one out). At half the price, I like the RMD better than the B1, although it is a coated blade when I prefer satin and the B1 has nice burl handles vs. micarta on the RMD. The wood is very "upscale" and nice looking on the B1 but micarta is probably tougher. Also, the RMD has *great* handle ergonomics and a great blade length and shape. The handle shape makes it almost impossible for the blade to twist in the hand, while the B1 is more rounded and I could twist the blade a little with my weak hand when holding the knife in my strong hand. I also sharpened the RMD up on my belt sander to shaving sharpness. It seems to take a nice sharp edge relatively quickly. The B1 may still have the edge in that regard but since I'm planning to sell the B1, I won't be testing the edge.

I was never a big fan of choils but I don't mind it on the RMD. I used it for some whittling of small sticks to make some shavings to start a fire with a ferro rod and it worked fine. I will have to remove some of the coating on the top of the RMD though for the ferro rod. I actually used the blade itself for about 25 strikes and only saw minimal damage to the blade. I wouldn't recommend using the blade for the ferro rod as standard practice but it was nice to know that I could in an emergency and still have a working blade afterwards. That SR-101 is some tough stuff.
 
Good choice, and I'm glad you like it so far. :thumbup:

Use it for a while and then let us know if you still like it. And if you pick up an ESEE 5, please do a comparison.
 
Swamp rat RMD's are an outstanding knife,but there is nothing wrong with the esee-4, I just think the handle isn't vary grippy.
 
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