For those who stabilize their own wood - - ??

R

rlinger

Joined
Mar 29, 2002
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I know that the subject of wood stabilization has been covered several times since I discovered this site. I wish to narrow the question to a specific area.

Those that do it successfully; in general what sealant(s), stabilizer(s), do you prefer to use?? I suppose, or guess, that one type may not cover all types of wood but I don't know.

Thanks; Roger
 
I wish someone that works for one of the stabilizing outfits would let us know what they use.
Roger, since you work on rifle stocks, do you think tung oil would work if held under a vacuum for a few days?
 
No. Even thin coats of modified tung oil take a couple days to cure enough to apply the next coat or wet sand it, etc.. I am not sure pure tung ever completely cures. A reasonable rule of thumb for us is: if you can detect its odor it has not yet completely cured. I sealed a small cherry cutting board at the camp a couple - three years ago with modified tung oil. When I returned about 6 weeks later I could still detect the tung odor (however, that was in cool weather).

Roger
 
WSSI uses a type of liquid acrylic. Lumberlady uses something else, I've heard it's something like Minwax wood hardener.
I doubt if any of them will tell you exactly, as their formulas are proprietary, and it's how they feed their families.
 
Mike,

Your answer is pretty much the impression I've gotten from the numerous posts concerning this subject over the past few months. It seems those that know ain't talk'n and those that want to know are experimenting. I believe, though, that if any of us here know we will share it. Those that do it for a living I would not expect to talk.

Thanks; Roger
 
Personally, I think the liquid acrylic method, which is solidified by heat after stabilizing, is the best method. Both WSSI, and K&G use it.
 
Mike,

Is that something we can purchase locally or by mail?? Are you just talking about the off-the-shelf stuff?

Roger
 
I have been meaning to call this company and ask it they had a product that we could use in this type of application.


Abatron, Inc.
Please call our technical support staff at 1-262-653-2000 8:00 a.m. to
4:30 p.m. CST to review your application in more detail.

Thank you for your time.
 
I have been watching this subject for a while and have not seen the subject adaquately addressed.

The commercial stabilizing folks are probably using an acrylic resin, possibly methyl methacrylate. Methyl methacrylateis is a clear liquid that hardens into what Rohm and Haas Co. calls Plexiglas by a reaction called free radical vinyl polymerization. A discription of the chemical and the reaction can be found at:

http://www.psrc.usm.edu/macrog/pmma.htm

The polymerization is started by a chemical initiator. Probably benzoyl peroxide (a dry powder in its pure form): Once started the reaction is reportedly self perpetuating. See:

http://www.psrc.usm.edu/macrog/radical.htm

I have not had the opportunity (Time) to investigat the posibility of using these chemicals. (new baby, addition to the house, new hot shop addition, ect, ect, ect) The questions that i would like to have answered are:

1. How much initiator should be added to insure correct cure?

2. What are the curing times? (How fas do da stuf set up?)

3. How much would the cure times be changed by higher or lower temperatures?

4. If the reaction is truely self perpetuating, could initiated resin be added to the exterior of methyl methacrylate saturated wood cause the entire block to polymeriz? If so, would heat be needed to cause this to happen?

These questions (and others) could be answered by carefull experimentation. Or someone out there could tell us. (We know you know.)


Thanks
Gary (pupandcat)
 
My limited research into this subject has led me to one conclusion, the chemicals and equiptment needed to safely stabilize wood using this process are expensive and very dangerous. Permits are needed to obtain them and special precausions must be taken to store them safely. I had thought that I would use this process at home, but decided that it was best left to the experts.
 
Gary, a company called Wild Woods uses Methyl Methacrylate, I believe. WSSI uses a different type.
Roger, I had a link for a place that would supply a liquid acrylic, unfortunately, I can't find it. I have been through my favorites a couple of times, and nothing.

My own opinion here, I don't believe in home stabilizing. Like Gary said, it's dangerous. The chemicals people are using to do it at home, scare the Hell out of me. The time spent, is all out of proportion to the results achieved.
If you were to take time into account, it would be no contest, you would be bucks ahead to send it to the professionals, and not have to worry about it. Those companies spend more $$ on hazerdous materials fees than we earn in a year. That way, you can spend the time making knives, and not exposing yourselves, and your families to toxic fumes. The last was put in here because I have heard of some who keep these toxic chemicals in the refrigerator, while attempting to stabilize something. :eek:
 
The Material Safety Data Sheet or MSDS for many substances is widely available on the web. Vendors of these substances are typically required to provide this information, and while the vendor's name often appears on the MSDS, the important content should be the same from vendor to vendor.

Simply search for MSDS ( or Material Safety Data Sheet) and the proper chemical name of the substance. Obtaining or deducing the proper chemical name will probably be the hardest part.

Here's one for Methyl Methacrylate:
http://www.proscitech.com.au/msds/c651.pdf

To me, this stuff doesn't look that bad compared to wood finishes for example, but I would definately prefer not to use/store it in my house, especially kitchen or bedroom.....

Two considerations:

1) Storing things in the refridgerator makes them WET from condensation. If a container of something must be stored in cold, dry conditons, enclose it in a larger airtight container that also contains indicating desicant, and allow to warm to room temperature before opening the outer container. Obviously, desert-dwellers have less of a problem with this, but only outside of the 'fridge. Also, substances that emit flammable vapors should NOT be stored in 'fridge that has not been "explosion-proofed". This means no electical switches, relays etc. are inside the unit--in fact, they are commonly enclosed in an air-tight enclosure outside the unit. While the outside enclosures are overkill for most applications, a tiny spark inside of a vapor-laden 'fridge can (and has) blown the door off with lethal force and broken every glass container inside.

2) Pure/concentrated compounds, particularly acids, bases, reductants and oxidants (which benzoyl peroxide is) may have sometimes different and much, much stronger properties than solutions commonly available. Last I knew, no chemical vendors would sell 95% hydrogen peroxide to research labs due to shipping hazards. But one can buy dilute solutions in the grocery store. Buying the large economy size of such materials isn't the greatest idea either--Buy/store what can be used in a reasonable time. That's what professional chemists do to minimize storage/disposal hassles and expenses. Anyone who has encountered pure ammonia for example, knows how different pure substances can be.

Maybe everybody knew this already, but if it helps one person be a little safer, I guess it's worth me being a pedantic *ss about it.
 
I have always had my wood stabilized, but I have been told that the professional stabilizers use a Loctite product called Resinol 90C. It's product number is suppost to be 18017.
I have been told that it comes in two parts which are mixed, and after the vacum, the wood is placed in a oven where the Resinol 90C is heat activated. The Loctite phone number is 1-800-LOC-TITE and ask for Craig. Last year the cost was $288.00 for four gallons.
I have never used this, I am just passing on information that I have picked up on Blade Forums over the last couple of years.
I have always been content to send my wood out to the professionals, but the last batch I got back which weighed around 20 lbs. was not stabilized very well. They say there are factors beyond their control, so I have 20 lbs of stabilized wood which has small air pockets. When I finish a handle, I have to cover all the small air holes up with super glue. It is a pain.
This experience has led me to be more interested in home stabilization.
I wish someone would try this Resinol 90C and share their experience with the rest of us.
 
Okay guys, thanks for all the involved info. It appears that after a day and a half or better that none of us are succesfully stabilizing our own wood or if any are they have not been on the air for a couple days or ain't talk'n.

I'll try to call Loctite next week and ask for Craig. If I find any thing of interest I'll share it with you.

Indian George gave a phone number too. I'll try to contact both.

Thanks to all; Roger
 
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