Forced Patina , gone south

[Decklin]

Ok, so I am a bit of a newbie and have no problem admitting that. I am reading all these posts about forced patina and think, heck I'll give that whirl sounds easy enough. I thought I would be a bit tricky though and masked off some patterns with some masking tape. Got out a shot glass with some apple cider vinegar and started brushing it on to the blade. With in five minutes I could see it working. I was amazed to see the original laser etchings pop. I took off the tape, washed the blade with soapy water and my plan had worked. I have this cool tiger stripe look on the blade. One problem... I then start to see brown rust appear at the edge of my custom scales. Remember previous post. Red wood scales epoxied to the Izula. The vinegar had seeped under the handle and not knowing how much air could seep under that handle, I commenced to chiseling my handles off the knife. I then wet sanded the entire blade back to the previous finish, lubed it up and put it away.

I am sure I should not have done this with scales that were not easily removable. Maybe I am missing something though. For those of us who are new around here can someone explain how this differs from regular rust. I heard someone once refer to it as healthy rust. Can anyone explain that? Is there a way that you are supposed to treat the knife after you have forced the patina, to keep it from continuing to rust? Any additional info about this would be helpful...

 

[adaman04]

You lost me at “epoxied-on scales”.

Patina is a trial and error thing. Yes, patina is basically controlled “rust” on the surface of the blade. Similar to what was done on tools, gun barrels, etc. in the days of old. Basically you are causing a mild chemical reaction with the metal to cover the exposed areas of bare metal. Since there is patina there, it is harder for red rust to form because the bare metal is not exposed.

 

[jumpmonkey]

If you are getting red rust, it's bad stuff and get rid of it. (Which I'm thinking you already did, but am not quite sure.) As far as patina and rust go I think it is that both are forms of Oxidization on the metal though with different results. Patina is a darkish oxidization that will offer some protection to the blade. Red rust is a nightmarish plague of evil corrosion.

Does that help?
No it doesn't.
But I tried...

God bless,
Adam

 

[Decklin]

You lost me at “epoxied-on scales”.

Patina is a trial and error thing. Yes, patina is basically controlled “rust” on the surface of the blade. Similar to what was done on tools, gun barrels, etc. in the days of old. Basically you are causing a mild chemical reaction with the metal to cover the exposed areas of bare metal. Since there is patina there, it is harder for red rust to form because the bare metal is not exposed.

Thanks for the info. I hadn't seen anyone explain it quite like that before. As far the scales go, I had made some scales out of red wood. Attached them with Chicago screws and filled the void with Epoxy to help keep the handle from shifting. Sorry if it was confusing.

 

[1066vik]

in the future if you wax or oil the blade (or even just line the metal with tape) before pouring in the epoxy it can't stick to the metal and them the scales will still be able to be removed without destroying them.
another thing that works really well is double sided tape (cellophane or carpet) that is trimmed to fit -- it'll hold the scales in place while you tighten down the screws.

good luck with your next try!

 

[fixer]

i've doene a forced mustard patina on a few custom knives with epoxied on scales, in Koa wood, Shadetree micarta and cordwrap over leather all epoxied in place.

steels have been 1095 and L6

i've never had any rust problems.

every time needed multiple sessions, including scrubbing off mustard in the sink and the first session of cleaning the blade with soap and water.

i've never used vinegar, but i don't think that's the problem.

i don't see you mentioning oiling the blade after washing it off. perhaps it was the water getting into the wood after the vinegar and causing the rust.

i've seen lots of redwood furniture in the past, and it wouldn't be my first choice for knife scales. it needs lots of maintenance and is prone to cracking and splitting.

if you used redwood burl, that's probably denser and more durable. probably still needs mineral oil tho. (unless it's stabilized with epoxy)

 

[sadiejane]

in the future if you wax or oil the blade (or even just line the metal with tape) before pouring in the epoxy it can't stick to the metal and them the scales will still be able to be removed without destroying them.
another thing that works really well is double sided tape (cellophane or carpet) that is trimmed to fit -- it'll hold the scales in place while you tighten down the screws.

good luck with your next try!

usually you can just use heat to soften the epoxy then remove and reuse the scales