Forced Patina

J

jwh

Joined
Apr 23, 2010
Messages
730
Am I the only one who doesn't understand the reasoning of a forced patina? To me it seems like trying to make an antique out of a brand new chest of drawers. I find a knife looks nice with or without a patina. I just think a patina is something a knife would earn along with a few good stories. I understand it's purely a personal preference but what's the attraction? Thanks for playing.

jwh
 
i think of a forced patina as protection from rust
i live in mississippi and its HUMID here, knives rust just sitting in your pocket. So forcing a patina affords a bit of protection

i dont really force a patina for the look
just my thoughts
 
A patina helps protect the blade, so it makes some sense to get that process going sooner rather than later, especially for a user. As long as it isn't used to falsely represent the knife for whatever reason, I don't see the big deal about it.
 
It all depends on the knife, what you will be using it for. Some knives would look cool with a patina while others would not. As for those that live in areas that are hard on steel, I can see why a forced patina could come in handy. Again, it all depends. As long as it isn't used to falsely claim a certain age of a knife, I say go for it.
 
A forced patina is a great way to help ward off rust, especially for guys in hot, humid climates. It's not a new idea, by the way. Lots of old timers (including my grandad) would stick a new knife in a potato or apple to "season" or patina the carbon steel for exactly this reason.

-- Mark
 
jwh said:
Am I the only one who doesn't understand the reasoning of a forced patina? To me it seems like trying to make an antique out of a brand new chest of drawers. I find a knife looks nice with or without a patina. I just think a patina is something a knife would earn along with a few good stories. I understand it's purely a personal preference but what's the attraction? Thanks for playing.

jwh
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I'm with you on this one. I really don't like forced patinas. I get that it protects from rust, but with proper care, rust isn't going to happen overnight. A patina, on the other hand, will develop. I like patina on a knife, but, to me, forcing it is a lot like tearing holes in your jeans.
 
sqoon said:
I'm with you on this one. I really don't like forced patinas. I get that it protects from rust, but with proper care, rust isn't going to happen overnight.
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i disagree, rust can most definitely happen overnight, probably has to do with how sweaty your hands are or how humid it is where you live
just my experience
 
Rsmith_77 said:
i disagree, rust can most definitely happen overnight, probably has to do with how sweaty your hands are or how humid it is where you live
just my experience
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Yes.

Rust can happen faster on a new unprotected blade than one with a patina. Most of my family were in a salt water marine environment. Working watermen on the Chesapeake Bay. It was a custom for all new knives to be cleaned well, then stuck in a potato over night to give it some degree of a protective patina. Better a patina than rust and pitting. Just like the brown finish on old muskets way back when.

Carl.
 
Hi guys!

Patina helps the steel to protect from rust. But I don´t force that in any way. It comes when it comes. I don´t give my knives any vinegar treatment or whatever. All the patina my knives have, comes from using them.

@carl: That´s a logical way, when living in salty air. I´ve realized that last year, when I was in Croatia for holidays. The carbon steel knife, I used to carry... oh my god... I could nearly whatch the steel rusting through in my hands...

Oil also helps to protect before rust...

Kind regards
Andi
 
Yeah I agree Jackknife, they do offer a degree of protection.

But they won't stop rust from attacking a blade if you get soaked with sweat and stay that way all day. Especially a new one. I don't how to describe it but just like a new forced patina will not look like a 5 or 10 year old patina it won't protect like one either. At least in my experience.

Take this with a grain of salt and I am not saying my experience is to be written on stone tablets but a lot of times I think we mistake a stain for a patina. I've found that it really does take years for that deep, solid, flat gray patina to bond to the blade. You can get a darker stain with fruit and whatnot but the underlying patina is not fully formed yet. Take a drop of 3 in 1 oil on a blade and polish it up with a cloth. You'll wipe almost all of the stain off and see the patina underneath. As the blade gets years on it the underlying patina gets more and more robust. You'll notice when you turn it to the light that it doesn't have blue or green color to it.

I put up a pic of my mini trapper that has about 6 years of EDC on it. There are a few pits on it from taking it on a summer hike when it was only a few months old. Lived in NC at the time and the summer heat did a number on me and the blades. Has several pits on it. But as time went along the pits stabilized and a patina formed on the whole blade including the pits. That happened in a couple few hours time with me drenched in sweat. It don't take long sometimes. I used that knife for apples, cheese and whatnot in addition to the normal stuff a pocket knife does. I think it helps a patina form but it won't do it in a matter of months. It takes a long time for a true protecting patina to form.

Will
 
I don't "force" a patina, however I do embrace it, and sometimes facilitate it forming easier :p Like using my new carbon steel knives on fruit and steak duty, and not wiping them off right away. I agree, this isn't quite as handsome as a knife that gained real patina over years of use, but I figure it's going to stain anyways, I might just speed up a bit of that beginning process.

It also helps me fret less about the knife finish. If I'm trying to keep it shiny, I just know it's still going to get some love spots with real use. If I let it get marked up right away, then I don't worry so much.
 
Oh darn. You punched one of my buttons.

As a chemist and materials engineer who puts "aerospace corrosion prevention" as a specialty on his resume, I guess I have these thoughts.
* "Patina" is corrosion. Surface corrosion.

* When non-stainless steel corrodes, the resulting iron oxide layer is not tightly adhering and does not provide a barrier to further corrosion. (Corrosion is a chemical reaction. The reactants are iron, water, and oxygen. To stop the reaction, you have to put a barrier between the iron and the other reactants.)

* Patina, in and of itself won't slow the rusting of a piece of steel. If you put two pieces of steel in a salt spray cabinet, one with patina and the other without, they will both rust away to nothing pretty fast.

* However, patina, being somewhat porous and roughening the surface, can act to help trap a layer of oil on the surface of a blade, assuming one does occasionally oil the blade. And that trapped oil will inhibit corrosion. Phosphate conversion coatings on steel operate the same way. You have to oil the coated steel to get good corrosion resistance.

Carry on.
 
willgoy said:
Hence stainless got invented, and improved...:D:thumbup:
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and in your experience does any stainless get as sharp and keep its edge as well as carbon steel?
at least in the same price range (not sure about some of the new super steels, but they are all pretty pricey)
 
Thanks folks. A lot of good information to soak up. I lived half of my life in South Louisiana, much of it only miles from the water and never had a knife or gun rust that I can remember. I am now in a dry western environment and I am not sure I could get something to rust if I wanted to. I must admit I am pretty anal about taking care of stuff.

jwh

PS
Hoping the 2 new GEC are delivered when I get home tomorrow. big grin and anticipationnnnnnnnnn...........
 
Call me crazy but I like the look of gun blued steel over unfinished or regular "patina." So I take some cold blue to the blades and it suits me fine.
 
I can see it from both points of view.

One fellow posted a technique on how to force a deep, nearly black, even patina on a carbon steel blade. The result looks kind of like "tactical black", except that it is not a coating that can be chipped off. Kind of a neat idea.

Some of my carbon-bladed knives have kind of a new patina look, which looks a little "dirty" to my eye. It is not even or deep enough that it looks old, just like it has not been cared for. I don't feel strongly enough about it that I'm going to jump through any hoops to force it to be even or black, but I do understand why some folks would want to do so.

I also understand the choice of stainless blades over carbon, since they never have to look dirty; they can always look new!

The bottom line is that I don't NEED to understand why someone would want to force the patina on their knives. It is just one more type of variety we are exposed to, as collectors of traditional knives. Not many modern designs are made from carbon steel any more, if any.
 
The only knives I force patina are my case CV s that I use and abuse (i.e. carving). There is the rust benefit but imo the best thing about a forced patina is that I can use I knife hard that I would otherwise be afraid to scratch up. Alos, I like the look of a patinad carbon blade, and don't mind oiling my knives regularly.. -hayes
 
Rsmith_77 said:
i think of a forced patina as protection from rust
i live in mississippi and its HUMID here, knives rust just sitting in your pocket. So forcing a patina affords a bit of protection

i dont really force a patina for the look
just my thoughts
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+1 I know it's been said, but I live in the northwest and I heavily prefer the look of a polished or clean stonewashed blade, but I hate constantly polishing rust off of my 01 or 1095 blades after day trips. I like to make camp around lakes and sometime have to cut live wood, and even if I wipe my blade, I get rust spots. The forced patina for me is purely a nessecity of my surroundings. I would never do it to a safe queen.
 
Others have already pointed this out, but for most users a forced Patina is not about appearance (although a well-done patina looks gorgeous) but rather about adding some corrosion resistance, and it does that very well. There are folks who etch and "antique" their knives to give it an "old" look, especially on traditional-style knives. But most people putting mustard patinas on their knives at home are trying to get a little more corrosion resistance out of them.
 
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