Forge cherry red?

warrior24

warrior24

Joined
May 3, 2006
Messages
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When someone says cherry red to they mean red or orangeish/red. I able to get my forge to a orange, the shade that is on ridgid tools slightly brighter. When I take my knife out of the forge my knife is sorta red/orange (different color then when in the forge). Is it getting hot enough, I tried doing the process that your guys gave me a while back but the knife wont harden, the only part that hardens is the tip of the knife.
 
Is the tip of the knife the part that is orange or brighter than red? If so, that might explain why the tip is the only part that is hardening, it's probably the only part getting up to austenetizing temp, so your forge may not be getting hot enough. I'm sure you already knew this, but one simple way to see is to check the steel with a magnet prior to quenching. The blades that I have quenched are ususally past red into the orange somewhere. -Matt-
 
Could you please explain, in as much detail as possible, the process you used and what you are quenching it in? Perhaps more details will help with the troubleshooting aspect. Maybe I am taking your first post out of context, if so, I apologize. Thanks. -Matt-
 
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If its a simple hunter/skinner knife, here's what I do:

Safety:
First, move all combustible materials out of the area.

Next, make sure you have a fully charged fire extinguisher onsite before starting.

Third, make sure your oil is in a fireproof container (read metal) and you have a fireproof lid that fits tightly.

HEAT TREATING 0-1 TOOL STEEL

1. Preheat oven to 400 deg f.

2. Mount torch in vise. Attach #7 or #8 tip.

3. Tape magnet to torch so it rides close to tip, but in the cold zone.

4. Fill adequate size bucket with old motor oil.

5. Preheat oil to 140 deg f. by dropping in a red hot bolt, or something with
enough mass to heat your oil.

6. Slowly heat the edge portion of your blade until cherry red, and non-magnetic.

7. Quench the edge in oil. Do not swirl until boiling stops. Leave blade in the oil for a few minutes.

8. Remove when just cool enough to touch.

9. Test edge with a file. It should slide right off and not cut. If it doesn’t, repeat the process.

10. Wipe off all oil, and immediately (while still warm), put in kitchen oven for one hour.

11. After 1 hr. remove blade (leave oven on), and allow it to cool to room temp. (takes about 20 minutes).

12. Put knife back in the oven for another hour.

13. Repeat for a total of 3 cycles in the oven.

14. Your blade’s edge is now hardened and tempered to about Rockwell C 60-61. The rest of the knife should be flexible enough to give a little without snapping in half.
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I followed these instructions and the file just dug right in the knife. I am using a forced air burner forge I.G style, front and rear insaboard doors,kawool,itc-100,vaccum cleaner as a blower. The one part of the knife that the file did slide off was the tip. It made a differnt sound on the tip of the blade, compared to the main part of the blade. Canola oil in an ammo can is what I am using a quench.
 
My guess is that somehow the steel (other than the tip) is not getting to the austenetizing temp. Bearing in mind that to get the best out of O-1, it should be soaked for 1 hr at temp per inch of thickness, ( I know, we work with what we have ) those instructions still should have worked and the steel should have hardened. My suggestion is try to get it hotter, but not burn the tip, then quench it and see what happens. Maybe give your forge about 1/2 hour to pre-heat. I hope someone else has some suggestions here too. Good luck! -Matt-
 
Well I am doing the oven cycles right now even thought I dont think it got hard, I am just trying to see what happens. Is is posibble that I dont have enought btu's from the regulator?
 
You've gone as far as to invest in building the forge....you might consider getting a pyrometer to take some of the guesswork out of your procedures. Is it possible that you're getting just beyond nonmagnetic and then dropping too much heat before quenching?
-Mark
 
That very well could be...crank it up a bit and see what happens. I had to monkey with my forge a bit before I got it where I needed it. -Matt-
 
Hi Warrior24,
Are you seeing any shadows in the Color? They look like darkish, almost black spots. If so, go a little hotter until they disappear. It sure sounds like you are getting hot enough though. Is there any chance its not O-1? Maybe they sent you the wrong stuff? Try polishing off any scale and crud and testing the steel underneath.

I go more by color than just the magnet. That's the method I learned 25 years ago and its never failed me. I just use the magnet as a double check. You can't go wrong with the pyrometer though. Its better to be sure. I do hold for a few minutes at temp. Should've included that in my original instructions to you.
Scott
 
When I got the steel in the mail the ends were painted yellow. I dont know if this means why type of steal it was. Do you mean shadows in the scale color or when it was in the forge?
 
In the forge and at temp.
Seems to me my O-1 comes with red paint on the ends, or no paint. I get it from McMaster Carr. I wouldn't trust the paint color as an indicator of steel type though. Where did you get it?
 
when you pull it from the forge it should be of a solid "orange" color there should be no "shadows" in the glowing steel
 
I got it form Texas knife maker supply, I didnt really look to see if ther were shadows in the steal when I pulled it from the forge. I just noticed that in the forge it was orange and when I would pull it out it was not as orange, I think thats cause it was bright outside.
 
Always try the magnet. It will tell you. Learn the color of when the magnet stops sticking and try to do it in a shaded place. How the steel's color appears will not be the same in different lights. Try to do it in a constant light so that the you can judge. you could even get a scrap file and start playing with the magnet and the color to learn
 
Test it with a magnet jut prior to quench. If the magnet sticks any at all uit is not hot enough.

You could have a "Rind" of decarb on the blade.Take the file and start filing the softer areas. If it starts to skate after six of seven good cuts that is a good sign. If so, sand/grind down the soft area to expose the steel underneath. If while grinding it all of a sudden starts sending out a shower of bright sparks (and there were dull sparks to start with) then it is decarb. Many first knives seem to be unhardened until you sand down to the good steel.
Stacy
 
bladsmth by rind do you mean that the blade has an orange peel of scale look on it. I will take some pics to show you what I mean. Assuming it hardened it how well should the file dig in. I have tried the file test on other knifes, the file sorta digs in the blade. The only type of blade I tested that it skid off of was a utility knife blade. I sharpened it and it seems to be holding an edge however I cant get it to shaving sharp.
 
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