Forge vs. Stock Removal... A great read...

Even though they use swords as the reference of the debate, this holds true for knives as well. I love both forms of hunting knives and what I like is the difference in style. Stock removal knives most times have a more refined, streamlined, and modern type look. The hand forged knives seem to follow the more traditional, 1800’s type style.
 
I've not clicked the link and read the article. I'm a little low on data right now. :(
I do know that Forging aligns the grain of the metal, and can increase the density. This might make the blade stronger, depending on the final heat treat, of course.
I know stock removal costs less than forging. (If it didn't "everyone" would be using forged blades).
Both can be given the same final polish/finish of course.
For use in a pocket knife or a hunting knife
I don't think there is any practical difference. One works just as well as the other. Of course I may be mistaken on that. :)
 
The article is very well thought out and very much factually based. Steel blades went from hand forged, to a form of drop forged, to completely stock removal.
All forms are represented in my collection of such do-dads. I do get a certain pleasure from handling one of my hand forged fixed blade knives, and it's not for any advantage it may or may not have. It's all because of the thought of someone having used a hammer and anvil, it just adds a coolness factor for me.
Again, if one is into blades, (knives or swords), the read is a very good one.
 
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afishhunter said:
I've not clicked the link and read the article. I'm a little low on data right now. :(
I do know that Forging aligns the grain of the metal, and can increase the density. This might make the blade stronger, depending on the final heat treat of course.
Click to expand...

The article talks about this and explains that aligning the grain in forging by hand is very difficult to have happen. Think of how many times the steel is turned and hammered in all sorts of different directions.

The author did agree that no matter what, the correct heat treat was key.
 
Interesting article. One fact is over looked though. All steel is forged at the mill when its made. Forging on the anvil (which I use to do) is simply shaping, already forged steel. Shaping a blade by stock removal (what I do now) is simply shaping already, forged steel. This is often overlooked in these discussions. I would also say that the part on damascus is misleading. They really should be talking about the making of damascus steel not damascus blades. I've never made damascus but I've sure made lots of damascus knives. Mono steel or damascus the steel is forged first (made) then the knife is made.
 
Just to reinforce Jake's take on the differences in post #2, here are two custom made hunters, one forged and one stock removal.
You should have no trouble telling which is which.

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Interessting article on a very difficult topic.
I think, one part is missing: if you do a hand forging it can lead to a damage, if the steel is overheated. This can lead to unequal structure of the grain in the steel. Also if you don´t forge the whole steel bar in the same intesity (power and number of strokes) it might also lead to brittle parts in the bar. This can happen without obvious signs in the bar, but the knife might break if it comes to torsion force.
This can often be provided when using a factory machine forged steel ( as Horsewright said: every steel is forged) which is forged often between rolling mills, where the power working on the properly heated steel is more even.
This is the reason why I prefer stock removal for my knife making. My skills are not big enough for a proper and reliable forging
( please forgive my bad English, I´m not used to talk about metallurgy and those topics in this language ;):confused:)
 
Jsega51 said:
The article talks about this and explains that aligning the grain in forging by hand is very difficult to have happen. Think of how many times the steel is turned and hammered in all sorts of different directions.

The author did agree that no matter what, the correct heat treat was key.
Click to expand...

My apologies, I was thinking of the machine hammer forging used by most major knife manufacturers in the past, and as far as I know, by firearms barrel manufacturers today.
You are, of course, correct. Hand forging can give inconsistent results in any one piece, to say nothing of multiple pieces.
 
For smaller knives like folders and hunters, I don't see much to differentiate between forge and stock removal. Forged blades come into their own with larger knives like bowies. In this application, the forged blades have a couple advantages. First, you can make a forged blade tougher by giving it a differential temper, with a harder edge and softer spine and tang. An important consideration given the increased stresses a larger blade like a bowie experiences. Secondly, a skilled smith can alter the balance of a forged blade with distal taper. He can make even robust knives lively and agile.

The second lesson was driven home to me by my recent acquisition of a Camillus/Fisk Southwestern Bowie. Although a big knife, it is light and nimble because of Camillus' choice to use 3/16" stock. By comparison, the hand forged bowie below it is 1/4" thick at the spine, despite being almost 2" shorter. It is also nimble because of Stuart Branson's excellent use of distal taper. The blade thins at the start of the clip, so that it is thinner at the tip. Despite the shorter length, the Branson is more authoritative and scarier in hand. All because of distal taper, a technique that is a specialty of the smith.

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kamagong kamagong , just want to point out that stock removal does not limit the features of distal taper or differential hardening. While likely more common in forged knives, the process of stock removal does not limit it. Both features improve a blade through a skilled smith not process.

Lovely knives! I wold love to have a hand forged bowie of my own someday!
 
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You are correct, distal taper is not limited to forged blades. How often do you see it used in stock removal though? I'm talking about both factories and custom makers. They're rarer than hen's teeth.
 
Windlass Steelcrafts in India does most, (if not all), of their swords and large knives, by hammer and anvil method. They purchased Marto of Spain some years back, so it does not seem that they have done too bad financially, and likely have the means to invest in changes. I am going to make a guess that at some point they'll go with more modern machinery at their India location(s), and put their hand forging on the history shelf. They are currently one of, if not the only, hold out on their hand forging ways (as far as large production knife/sword centers go).
I just think that it seems very obvious that the hand hammering on anvils will only become more rare as time goes on. Again, for me it's just cool to have blades made in such a manner (nostalgic). I know that my Laguiole (made by Forge de Laguiole) has a machine drop forged blade, but that may be my only knife specimen made that way. Still, that method too is represented in my collection.
 
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I got to try my hand at forging at a local event and came away impressed by the entire process. I won a piece of 1095 Steel in a raffle, and I was guided through cutting the steel in half to forging a knife over the course of a couple of hours. It was one of the coolest knife experiences I've had for sure. Toured stock removal shops and read about CNC milling shops as well, equally as cool, albeit maybe not as approachable from a beginner standpoint.

Anyway pictures of the knife with beginning steel (other half) after being cleaned up somewhat on a grinder.

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After a competent heat treat, cleanup and sharpening, I'll post more pictures.
 
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