Forge welding mild steel to 15N20?

[weo]

Hello all. In an effort to conserve my 1084 by not using it where there's no edge, I'd like to use mild steel. (see diagram)


I think I've read that it's either: (a) difficult to weld mild steel in a billet or (b) that you have to weld at a higher heat than normal (thus promoting grain growth).

Is welding mild steel to 15N20 and 1084 difficult? Will after welding forging and doing regular 3 normalizing cycles take care of the grain growth? Is this something I should worry about?
Thanks

 

[Willie71]

You will get grain growth above 1600f anyway. You need higher heat with mild steel. I have a Venturi burner in my forge, and I’ve welded mild to W2 cores with no problem. I think a Venturi burner only goes to 2400f or so. Not 100% sure about that, so don’t quote me.

 

[JTknives]

Carbon content in steel affects its “melting” temps tire as well as it’s forge welding temp. The higher the carbon content the lower the temp. This is why cast iron is so popular, it has a lower melting temp then steel because it has a very high carbon content. This is also why wrought iron has to be heated hotter to forge weld. It is lacking carbon to drop the temp.

 

[Ken H>]

Is the lower carbon content that requires SS to use higher welding temps for 416/410 SS with high carbon core?

 

[Metalhead0483]

This is also why wrought iron has to be heated hotter to forge weld. It is lacking carbon to drop the temp.

Yep, makes my welded wrought iron blades interesting. My first one I only did like one normalizing cycle before I went to heat treat. Fail... Holy grain growth in the edge steel batman...

These days I do a MUCH more in depth normalizing process...

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

You are making a modified honsanmai kitae billet. Weld it at a high welding heat ... yellow-white.

I think you should turn the edge layers the same way as the san-mai (vertical). This will give a much nicer pattern and weld better. I fear splitting and an odd pattern as you have it now.

 

[weo]

You are making a modified honsanmai kitae billet. Weld it at a high welding heat ... yellow-white.

I think you should turn the edge layers the same way as the san-mai (vertical). This will give a much nicer pattern and weld better. I fear splitting and an odd pattern as you have it now.

Thanks Stacy, but I'm going for a specific pattern here. I'm looking for clouds over a flowing river...

 

[weo]

Double post..

 

[Ken H>]

Since you're wanting that pattern, would it not be better to weld up two billets, the top portion, and bottom portion as separate billets. Then weld those together? Seems like when you press from side to weld the top portion, you'd be pushing the bottom portion to spread the metal apart which might mess up the weld?

That is a question on my part, I do not know the answer.

 

[weo]

Since you're wanting that pattern, would it not be better to weld up two billets, the top portion, and bottom portion as separate billets. Then weld those together?

I think/hope you're right, because that's the plan. I already have the 10 layered piece welded up and squared.

 

[Tenebr0s]

Isn't this basically just a modified gomai (5 layer billet), with the core steel a low layer damascus? Why not weld up the core steel, then make a billet with the core steel in the middle, then a layer of mild, then 15n20 on the outsides. You can adjust the thickness of the outer layers to get the pattern you want, and you avoid having to forge a weld seam on edge like in your initial diagram.

 

[weo]

Isn't this basically just a modified gomai (5 layer billet), with the core steel a low layer damascus? Why not weld up the core steel, then make a billet with the core steel in the middle, then a layer of mild, then 15n20 on the outsides. You can adjust the thickness of the outer layers to get the pattern you want, and you avoid having to forge a weld seam on edge like in your initial diagram.

Hi Tenebr0s, not sure what you are saying, but the way I understand what you're suggesting, that wouldn't give me the image of the 'sky' or 'horizon' between the clouds and the water.

Because there seems to be a little confusion, here's another sketch of my plan. I already have the bottom piece welded up..

 

[weo]

On further thought, I guess that would be another way to accomplish this T Tenebr0s , but it still doesn't answer my initial question about if I should worry about adding mild steel into the piece.

 

[Tenebr0s]

I weld high-carbon to mild all the time. As others have said, you want a higher heat. Carbon diffusion "clouds" into the mild might add an interesting addition to the sky and water image.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

Give it a try, but I still think you will get better "waves" with the billets parallel, not perpendicular. The old name used for plain layered damascus was "water pattern".