forge welding

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Jan 18, 2021
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Do you use flux when you forge weld?

Is non-flux welding more difficult.

I'd love to hear people's oppinions on this as I'm really close to pulling a trigger purchasing a new forge.

The Forge I prefer has a refractory that does not like flux and if I were a more experienced smith I might know how hard non-flux forging is. The other forge practically makes flux welding one of the design features.

Any help would be very much appreciated by this rookie!
 
Do you use flux when you forge weld?

Is non-flux welding more difficult.
Good morning, FF Drew. Welcome to the addiction.
The answer might depend on more than one thing, but the first of which would be, what is your forging experience? And a close second would be what tools are you going too be using?
Forge welding is what's called, diffusion bonding, where you get the atoms/molecules close enough together that they share electrons. To do this, you need to avoid the outer layer molecules from developing a layer of oxides (scale) that will prevent them from getting close enough, which is why you heat the steel in what's called a 'reducing' atmosphere. This is also the main thing that the flux is for, to prevent scale formation.
Using a hydraulic press to set the weld makes it very easy to get the molecules close enough very quickly, so the chance on developing an oxide layer is relatively small. I'm lucky enough to have access to a 25-ton press and I rarely, if ever, use flux. Having the large dies and all that power allows one to 'squish' the steel enough to get the molecules really close in one shot, even at what some folks would consider temperatures that are too low (I've done a billet when my forge was topping out at 1880F).
However, if you are setting the welds by hand, then I'd say you should get used to flux, because it's hard to 'squish' the whole billet in one shot. When using a hammer, you squish where the hammer face strikes, but all around that area, the layers will tend to separate, allowing air in and oxides to form, and as mentioned before, the flux will prevent this scale formation.
You can do things to make this easier, like making sure all the pieces are cleaned/ground smooth and fit together as close as possible. But if I were doing everything by hand, I'd probably just get used to using flux and replacing the floor occasionally (depending on how often you weld), or buy a removable ceramic plate or fire brick to catch the flux when using flux, or having a dedicated welding forge.
 
Drew,
First, slow down. You just got a RR track anvil and ordered a forge. Learn to forge first.
Second, when you start learning to forge weld, use borax flux. Once you get an understanding of the temperatures and techniques, you can try hydrocarbon flux welds. You can look that up with the custom search engine.

Dry welding is a very difficult task and requires a lot of experience. It is not used a lot in knifemaking.

Order a piece of kiln shelf to put on the forge floor, or coat the floor with a layer of bubble alumina. www.hightemptools.com sells everything you need.
 
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i am new to forging too and initially i thought cleaning steel with a grinder and wire wheel would work. That lead to delams. Clean and flatten all surfaces to be welded with the belt grinder, i use 60 grit and my results have been much better. i also soak the cold peice in diesel before putting it in the forge for the first time, then add flux when it is dull red. i use a 50 Tonne press for setting welds and press 3 times.
heat to red, flux, heat to yellow - press to 15 Tonne,
heat to red, flux, heat to yellow - press to 30 Tonne
Heat to red, flux, heat to yellow - press to 45 Tonne

This system has worked very well for me.
 
For initial forge weld most important is temperature and light blows with hammer if flux is used and hammered in a successively outward fashion to squeeze the flux out.... Welding temperature depends on the percentage of carbon and others alloy ........... That s all I need to know and it works for me :)
 
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