Forged Blades: How much grinding do you do?

N

Nomoemuny

Joined
Nov 19, 2004
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30
How much finish work do you guys that forge have to do on your blades. Sometimes my forged blades feel more like a stock removal process than a forging. Is it my inexperience or do all of you have to spend 2-3 hours finishing a blade on the belt sander?
 
I've seen guys like Richard Williams of Dollywood forge a blade so close to finished all it would need is a little sanding and sharpening. No hammer marks at all, hardly, a beautiful example of the craft. I've seen others mildly profile a blade, bang on where the edge will be a tiny bit, then go to the grinder.

Thus, there is a large spectrum of what people call "handforged". Obviously, the intent is to progress towards what Richard can accomplish..... That takes a helluva lotta practice.
 
As Mike said, I've seen blades made by people like Max the Knife, that just needed a little touch up with a file.

Mine depend on the day. Some days, I seem to have a magic touch. Other days, I'd have been better off to grind from the start.
 
fitzo said:
I've seen others mildly profile a blade, bang on where the edge will be a tiny bit, then go to the grinder.
Click to expand...

I didn't know you've been to my house.

Steve

PS I save plenty of time at the belt grinder. It's the angle grinder and I that are the best friends.
 
I spend on the outside no more than 30 minuets on a blade that is to be a hand rubbed finish, less on a rustic finish. Gib
 
Here is another question-Which method produced the highest quality blade, stock removal or forging? Assuming the smith is experienced, I know that the grain quality can be superior and most people see "hand forged" as a plus but I would think a good heat treat and temper on a stock removal blade could prove just as effective as long as it was a quality steel suited for the purpose in the first place. Any thoughts?
 
Multi-opinioned answer to that one. I will simply say that if a bladesmith is not adequately skilled to do thermal cycling to reduce/control the grainsize of a forged blade effectively, they are better put to practice that on the side and do stock removal until that skill is attained. How close to finish you forge is an admirable skill. Proper heat treatments, on the other hand, are a mandate for either method, and harder to do on a forged blade.
 
You will indeed get a lot of opinion on that. I agree that proper HT will give as good results as forged concerning grain structure. However, I am a firm believer in grain contour. Again a lot of opinion...but I look at the grain in steel much as I look at wood. If a forged blade is made properly the grain follows the blade instead of running out where it is profiled. This gives it more strength and flex oz for oz.

But then what do I know. I really believe you get a harder more flexable blade if you burn a sock prior to quenching.
 
I was working on my forge last Thursday welding on a bracket to hold one of the burners in place when my wife came out to the shop for lunch. I guess I really didnt realize how dry the grass has gotten but me being the task oriented type I dont like to stop doing something until I am done. Three times my wife tried to get my attention. Three times I said just a second...only need to finish this bead...when she smacked me on the welding helmet and said "Your on fire stupid!" Now my wife has a way of saying "stupid" that makes you beleive it real quick. Sure enough I looked down and there was a 2 ft circle of burning grass with me in the middle of it. Now technically I wasn't on fire but I might as well have been. My wife also likes to talk so now everyone she knows calls me......calls me.....oh it just so humiliating.......HOTPANTS! :(
 
In the skilled hand a forged blade will out-perform a ground blade.In the unskilled hand they may both be poor.Stock removal and proper HT will produce a first class blade.Hand forging can produce the most from a piece of steel.
I generally forge to a reasonable finish and grind the final details and such.It takes about 10 to 30 minutes to finish up a blade and get it ready for HT.
The biggest advantage in forging is the efficient use of steel.You move the steel to the shape you want ,instead of grinding it away.You can also use round stock in steels that are not readily available in flat stock.
SA
 
nomo - my wife was reading this over my shoulder and is now on the floor laughing....she said "That's just like you!!"

*groan*



I guess I'll keep 'er.....:D :eek: :p
 
As far as forging goes my experience had kind of been like this...

When I took the blade to the grinder, I found my forging mistakes and learned what not to do later on. Now I spend less time at both.

The biggest problem I had initially as I recall was that the blade was thicker 1/3 back from the point from trying to straighten the banana. The banana is a long gone thing of the past but I remember when...


Craig
 
I'm kinda confused on how thick to leave the edge after forging. Some say you need to leave at least 1/16 of an inch because of carbon loss. 1/16 on each side ? You need at least that much for an edge now you got 3/16 of an inch. You got to grind on that some. Now you got to heat treat; more carbon loss due to scale.Now comes finish grinding. What do you start with? If the above is true the person that forges to finish hasen't any carbon left in the edge.
???
TJ
 
Boy, I really admire you bladesmiths. Forging is a world apart from what I am relegated to. I wish I could forge. I have no place safe for that. I wish I could have salt pots. I have no place safe for that. I admire you forgers and wish someday I might throw a hammer down at some forgiving bladesmith's place.

RL
 
I leave from 1/8 to 3/16" edge thickness and heat treat direct from the forge, grinding afterheat treat. Gib
 
Forget about the clock. We all have different skill levels. Do what works best for you and enjoy what your doing. Learn by your mistakes. This craft is something I've totally enjoyed since the day I started and I feel like I'm learning something new everyday that I'm at it. I see the "I'd rather be Fishing" bumper stickers and think I need one made up saying "I'd rather be Making a Knife".
 
I like to spend as little time grinding as possible; I'm not a very good grinder. More often than not I put grinder marks in the blade. The more time I spend at the grinder on a given knife, the more marks I put in it. What I've started to do is forge as close to final shape as I possibly can. I had to learn how to keep the blade from scaling and how not to put hammer marks in the blade. It takes me a while to forge out a blade, but very little time to grind. I really love forging, but I hate grinding :).

~M
 
rlinger - Go to an ABS hammer-in.They will teach you to forge,and you will meet a bunch of guys who will invite you to their shops to learn and use their forge.Many other hammer-ins are also great places top learn and share info.Novice to Bill Moran,we all learn at the hammer-in.
SA
 
I don't have as much time as I would like to make knives. When I first started forging my friend Ted told me 10 minutes on the forge could save hours at the grinder and buffer. Work with steels you know the parameters of . Play with the limiters of heat, high and low. Test blades to find out what works and what don't. When you find a recipe that works stay with it. I usually forge 90 to 95% before heat treat. That leaves minimal time on the grinder. If you stick to your recipe most of your blades will turn out great. You will hose some , through them aside to remind you when you did something wrong. Some will be exceptional, thats what we strive for. Learn from your mistakes and successes.
Like bladesmith said, go to hammer=ins. We like to share.
Just my $.02.
 
An old rhyme applies:
"If thou wilst a keen edge win
Forge it thick and grind it thin"

It is not how close you forge, but the degree of reduction by forging that counts.

If you are using flat stock, you can improve blade quality (performance) by moving the steel as much as you can. Those who can work down large stock have a natural advantage over those who start with stock that is very close to the resultant forged blade, providing they forge at the right temperature with the right methods for the steel they are using.
 
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