Forged Stellite-Q's for Kit Carson

Will York

Will York

Joined
Jan 21, 2000
Messages
8,888
Could you tell me about your experience with the stellite blade forged by Steve Schwarzer? His experience as reported in the January 1999 BLADE indicated the blade during forging couldn't be straightened over an anvil with a hammer, and even resisted a 35-ton hydraulic press.
My Q's:
1. Did you find the forged material different from 6BH or 6K when you were grinding, finishing and sharpening it?
2. What performance differences would you expect, given your experience with the forged material, in the areas of toughness and edge holding?
3. Given the elemental changes in the alloy makeup from forging, as indicated by the lab reports on the forged blade, what predictions could you make about how the alloy might perform in a blade, as compared with factory products?

ON ANOTHER TANGENT--
With your extensive experience with 6K, 6BH and many of the new hi-tech steels, all other things being equal, which material would you choose if a high priority was to defeat one of the following failures:
A. Blade breakage due to flex
B. Edge chipping
C. Edge cracking due to flex
D. Edge rolling
E. Which material will support the thinnest distal taper and thinnest edge at the secondary bevel, if cutting in soft material such as meat and hide is the application?

Thank you, Kit--Will



[This message has been edited by WILL YORK (edited 01-27-2000).]
 
Kit might be a while in answering.. as he's at shot, and I dont think he brought a laptop with him.
 
Thanks Yoda & Rob. I'll check back periodically till he's able to get on the web. If he's shared his experience with anyone on the forums, beyond what Steve Schwarzer has published, I'd appreciate hearing about it.
 
I seen Kit yesterday/Saturday at the Las Vegas Classic. He will be home late Tuesday nite and will probably be back on the forums by Wednesday.
 
I've tried forging old Stellite lathe bits. It's probably the most frustrating material I've ever worked with, very hard to move(using hammer and anvil) and looses heat very quickly. I've been beating on a 1/2" piece on and off for a while, and have barely tapered it at all. It also picks up an odd scale on the surface.
Aaron

------------------
amacks@nist.gov
Don't forget to pay your taxes...they eventually become my knives:)

 
I own the knife. I've spoken at length with Steve Schwarzer about it, but his only real experience with the material is in this one blade, so he doesn't have experience with factory Stellite products to compare in terms of performance. I e-mailed Kit a couple of weeks ago, but he hasn't had a chance to answer me privately. I know how busy he is, and thought maybe by posting these questions on-line, some others might get some benefit from his answers besides me, when he finds time to sit down and address them.
 
Will,
I returned late last night. Give me a day or so to catch up on the last 10 days and I'll get a post up.

Getting too old for these long road trips. The SHOT Show and the Las Vegas Classic Knife show still have my head spinning.
 
i'm gonna purchase stellite, but i do stock removal. i think it's easier on tough steels, and non-ferrous metal.
 
Sorry for the delay. I sure hate those long vacations. Leaving that 75 degree weather in Las Vegas and returning to Kaintuckee's 10 degree and snow was a real joy.

1. When I received the blade from Steve it was typical of forged blades. Tough outer coat and needed plenty of work. I normally surface grind Stellite but this blade had a tapered tang and distal taper to the point and was forged into a general flat grind. I found it much more difficult to prepare it and spent way too many hours just prepping it. Forming and shaping the Stellite guard was a major undertaking in itself.

I started with 50 grit ceramic belts and worked up to 320 Klingspor belts on the Burr King. It took way more belts than I would usually go through. I then dropped back to 220 SC up thru 500 SC by hand. Since I'm primarily a hollow grinder with a bad shoulder and elbow, this turned pretty quick into drudgery. Even the ceramic blast finish seemed to take longer. Yes, it was much more difficult than Stellite barstock.

I sent it back to Steve unsharpened. He was going to do the sheath and I also I figured he needed the experience in sharpening Stellite. (Just kidding, Steve). I felt the edge at the Blade Show and was impressed with the results.

2 & 3. This was the first forged Stellite for me. I talked with Steve many times about it and we both agree that there may be no difference between it and the normal barstock. You are the guy that needs to let us know how it performs.

It has the potential to be the perfect knife. No rust blade, guard and screws and carbon fiber handles. Good working length and great balance. Of all the knives I've made over the years, it was the hardest to let go. Definitely one of a kind and the only one Steve and I have worked together on.

On another tangent,
A-Stellite
B-Stellite
C-420V
D-Of the materials I use (I don't forge) I'd probably say D2
E-420V


Whew, Will, those are some hard questions and I'm sure there will be plenty of responses and makers with differing opinions.

For me, I'll always prefer the cobalt alloys for what I use a knife for. Cutting cardboard and other stuff in the shop and skinning during hunting season.

Rob Simonich did a good post on another forum about how after the wire edge is gone, the stuff just keeps cutting and cutting.

For those interested, the article was in the January 1999 issue of Blade magazine.

 
Kit--Thanks for the comprehensive reply; it was worth the wait--I really appreciate your taking the time.
One reason I haven't put the knife through its paces (other than some rope-cutting tests) was the experience I relayed in my private e-mail to you. By forcing the blade between two boards of a table, I was able to leave faint scratches on the point, which was a surprise. It is possible that there may have been some sand in the crevice I forced the blade into, which could explain it, since the stellite actually isn't very hard. I just wanted to know if there were any performance issues in your mind, which I needed to be aware of with the forged blade. The knife is such a culmination of artistry and bull-necked determination on both your parts that I didn't want to take a chance on doing real damage to it if you had any reservations.
Do the lab results showing the elemental alteration of the alloy, due to the forging process, suggest anything to you about how performance might be affected--anything I should be especially careful about? --Will

[This message has been edited by WILL YORK (edited 02-02-2000).]
 
By the way--I agree with your assessment of the knife as a piece of work. The materials, blade length, and balance are uniquely superb--truly, artfully exquisite. I can think of nothing on which to base an argument against your statement that it may very well be the perfect knife. My hat's off to you and Steve for an incredible job--truly 01 of 01, just as the inscription reads on the blade. My questions were more a matter of reverence for the piece than reservations about its potential performance.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top