Forged Vs. stock removal question

S

shinoi

Joined
Nov 13, 2009
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what are the advantages and disadvantages of both? Is forged better? Why?
Which one is easier and which harder to make a knife?

I have my own assumptions and thoughts, but I was mainly wondering the benefits of the two methods, or even a hybrid of the two.
 
That's something I have looked into. There's no easy answer.
If done correctly, both methods yield great blades. If a person is a master, then their blades can be less expensive. ML Knives seem to have great prices on a forged knife that otherwise would be much more expensive.
Stock removal is popular because modern steel is very exact. You don't have to hammer out impurities and deal with limited amounts of good steel.
With proper heat treatment, I think both are viable options.
One article I read says that forging is better because of directional grain control. I have read this nowhere else, and others disagree. I'm not an expert.
 
foxx said:
That's something I have looked into. There's no easy answer.
If done correctly, both methods yield great blades. If a person is a master, then their blades can be less expensive. ML Knives seem to have great prices on a forged knife that otherwise would be much more expensive.
Stock removal is popular because modern steel is very exact. You don't have to hammer out impurities and deal with limited amounts of good steel.
With proper heat treatment, I think both are viable options.
One article I read says that forging is better because of directional grain control. I have read this nowhere else, and others disagree. I'm not an expert.
Click to expand...

Are you referring to edge packing?
 
No, I wish I could remember more detail about the article. It was regarding grain flowing with a specific direction, not edge packing.
These sort of ideas is what makes forged knives so misunderstood. I don't pretend to understand it. I don't even think that swordsmiths of the past understood what was really happening on a molecular level.
As far as today's knife enthusiast goes, finding the right knife doesn't mean we all have to be metalurgists.
There are bladesmith books and loads of info on the Internet. I don't know if one single post can answer all the aspects of the OP.
Some steels require a very specific heat treat, and if forged can be far superior than a blade made from stock removal, ala 52100.
 
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Forging Advantages
Forging is frugal with material. Forging also allows access to steels found in shapes not usable as is. Forging is the only common way to get damascus or wootz, if that is what you want. Forging also lends itself to some shapes that are difficult or expensive to reach using stock removal, such as highly curved blades.

Stock Removal Advantages
Speed-stock removal is pretty quick for small and medium size blades. Stock removal makes more use of stainless and high alloy steels. These steels can be forged, but the more complicated they are, the more difficult it is. Stock removal is less costly for initial setup. All you need to start is steel, a hacksaw, files, some sandpaper, the number of a good heat treater, and a 55 gallon drum of elbow grease. My first blades were made from O1 steel using grinding belts from Home Depot on a 1 x 30 belt sander.

Forging is surrounded by a lot of misinformation, such as edge packing, grain breaking, myths about what a forged blade can do that cannot be done with a stock removal blade, something about forging in a certain compass direction, etc. Sorting through it all is sometimes a disadvantage in itself. Just because a blade is forged does not make it better.

Bear in mind that nearly any steel used by a stock removal maker has been extensively hot worked before the maker gets it. This has usually been done in a hot rolling mill. In this sense, stock removal steel is "pre-forged" when the maker gets the pieces. Exceptions exist, and some makers use steels in the as-cast condition, taking them out of a mold, and giving them a final shaping and polishing.
 
There should be no difference in the end result if everything was done properly. It is a matter of preference.
 
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