forgewelding get's better.. but still got a problem..need help

[Bart student]

Hello folks,

Thanks to the good advice last time, I managed to get some steel to weld (i think). But I came by another problem.

I made three stacks, all had 52100 on the outside and another on the inside ( chainsaw sword, spring and bandsaw ).
I felt that the chainsaw welded the best, then the badnsaw, then the bandsaw. I did three welding heats, light taps, and all welded, but the spring welded not totally.

After that, I checked whether they welded OK, and I could see the seam, but only after if I ground a tad and I guess the softer stuff got ground off quicker.

Then I tried to strech them and all (ALL !) delaminated. It could be that I tried to forge them too cold, but I got the impression that the 52100 is tougher then the inbetweens, because I could hammer the stack so the softer steel came peeling out.

I got 52100, springstuff, chainsaw sword, O-1, D-2, M-2... which stacks do you suppose I try next?

I am not gonna stop trying, but I think I need some more info, especially detailled stuff on how to do this and that, if you know what I mean. I get the part about the borax becoming liquid, about the almost welding heat, almost sparks, heat troughout..all that.
I don't get the part about the streching and folding, not even the forging of damascus.

Greetz and take care all,

Thanks in advance for your help, bart.

 

[peter nap]

Done it Bart. A hundred damn times. I've made the knife only to have it delaminate during heat treat. Good luck! We have some of the best knifemakers in existance here who share their knowledge freely and I still do it.

I like you will keep trying until I get it but it sure is heartbreaking. I guess it's like skiing. You fall untill one time you make all the way down. After that you never fall again (well almost never)!

 

[Bruce Evans]

Bart,The spring and 0-1 should work fine,and the spring and 52100 should work fine,I would suggest keeping te D-2 and M-2 out of your billets until you really have a grasp on the concept of forge welding.Yes they can be welded as can 440c or ATS-34,But those are a whole different ball of wax to work with..
Just try the carbon steels at first.It sounds to me that you are probably hitting the bar at to low of a temp.Always keep it close to welding heats as you work it,the more you do the better you can judge the piece you are working on,Stretching the bar is.t hard,just bring it up to a welding heat and start stretching it oput only stop at a orange color and re-heat.
It is hard to explain with out showing someone first hand...

It took me about 3 years to figure out that i wasn't getting the billet hot enough so I kept messing up the bars I would try,once I figured it out I was abler to get all those old billets welded up and made into knives.I just wasn't getting a hot enough heat before I started welding.
Good Luck.
Bruce

 

[Eric M Ericson]

it sound like you are working it at to low a heat. Like Bruce says, keep the heat near welding temp to work welded metal .

 

[Ed Caffrey]

One of the things that is sometimes the hardest to grasp is that to achieve a good, solid forge weld, the materials must be closely compatable. What I mean by that is that is, in order to achieve a good, solid weld the materials used should have welding temps that are fairly close to each other. Other things that are often not thought of are the expansion and contraction rates of the materials in a billet. The delamination during heat treat is a sure sign that at least one of the materials has an expansion/contraction rate that is just not compatable with the other material(s). This is one of the major reasons that a lot of us tout the mixture of 1084 and 15N20. Everyone pretty much knows what 1084 is, but a lot do not realize that 15N20 is basically nothing more than 1075 with a 2.5% nickel content. So really it's like welding two plain, high carbon steels together. The best advice is to learn the steels, before you attempt to create damascus from them. It will save a great deal of cursing and heartache.