Forging advice needed...

[Disco Stu]

OK, after screwing up a good piece of O-1 and a lawnmower blade I've finally decided that I'm working the steel too hot. I've been working it at or, probably, above critical temp. How hot do you guys work the steel? Will working it too cold do a lot of damage? The piece of O-1 has cracks all over the place, not sure what from. The lawnmower blade was looking real nice until I let it get too thin at one point. Another piece for the ever-growing scrap heap. I got a piece of 1084 yesterday and have hammered out a decent looking blade with no problems that I can see. Am now trying to decide whether I try to forge the bevels or grind them.

Also, I've got my anvil set up at about waist height so that all I have to move is my forearm. Is this right?

And another thing, do you guys wear gloves/gauntlets while forging? I didn't at first but the hot scale kept flying on my arms and sometimes a big piece would leave a real nasty burn.

Thanks for your attention.

 

[B . Buxton]

Disco,

If your forging at critical temps ,your forging to cold.Unless your forging in a dark place critical temps won't show hardly, if any color.You need to get you temps up to 1800-2000 or even a little higher.When you try to forge at critical its to stressful and your cracking the steel, get it hot and keep it hot.You can tell by the way the steel moves under the hammer. You'll know when your burning the steel. Take a piece of scrap and heat it up watching the colors as it heats,when it gets to sparking,you've over done it,and be aware of your surrounding light. If your forging in the sun light you won't see the colors as you should,wait until after dark or move to a shady area.
As far as your anvil height, I was told years ago that when you hold your hammer handle, flat footed next to your anvil the hammer head should be flat on the anvil. This makes the hammer blows even coming off the center of the hammer and not the edges.
When forging just remember to keep it hot and don't hit it after the color is gone, if you don't burn it up or pound on it when its cold,
you won't hurt the steel, and be sure to normalize 3 times after forging to refine the grain in the steel.

Hope this helps
Bill

 

[Greg Covington]

Originally posted by Disco Stu
OK,

And another thing, do you guys wear gloves/gauntlets while forging? I didn't at first but the hot scale kept flying on my arms and sometimes a big piece would leave a real nasty burn.

I wear heavy welding gloves that go halfway up my arm.....but still, that odd piece of scale can get you. I also recommend safety glasses!

 

[Eric M Ericson]

You only worry about critical temp when you are heat treating, I forge at bright orange. the metal moves alot better, and it's alot less work. when the piece is dull red it goes back in the fire. I do wear gloves sometimes, but the scale can fly up and fall in the gauntlet where it can't fall away and you still get burned.

I vote for partialy forgeing the bevel, then grind the rest. That way any decarb, or bad hammer blow will be ground out. The more experience you get the less you'll grind. (or at least you will learn where to stop)

I agree with Bill on anvil hight (in fact I agree with every think he wrote) I hope this is helpful. Eric

 

[Disco Stu]

Hmmm, I always thought that getting a knife too high above critical was bad juju. I've been forging at a dull to bright orange, in the shade, which I estimate is a little above critical. Actually the first one I was forging at bright yellow. The metal was moving a little too well at that point. Couldn't control it at all. I was so worried about burning the steel I didn't want to bring it up too high. How about when your doing real fine operations? I mean when you're almost done and you just need a tap here or there, is it OK to do it relatively cold?

I've been wearing goggles and gloves. After seeing what the scale did to my arms I decided I didn't want it in my eyes.


Thanks for the advice.

 

[Disco Stu]

Oh, and one more thing: How do you all keep the sweat out of your eyes? I've just been wiping my forehead after I put the steel back in the fire but I've been toying with the idea of making a head band of some sort.

 

[B . Buxton]

Disco,

When your about finished with the blade like you said and need just a little fine tune shaping and straightening, I'll bring up to good orange heat and use a lighter hammer(1-2 pounder). But in my opinion you need to leave fairly thick when forging, so you have enough material left to grind off the scale down to good clean metal and still not be to finished thicknesses,so you don't burn up a thin cutting edge and still have a little excess left for finish sanding after heat treating.This is the way I do it and it produces a very strong knife and sharp cutting edge, but we all have are own ways and techques when it comes to knifemaking.
Hope this helps.
Bill

 

[Eric M Ericson]

A blacksmith friend says that if you don't overheat a piece now and then you are working to cold. I work bright orange in the full sun.

I will hammer mild steel cold, but high carbon can work harden. A sharp blow might cause it to shatter. It would work if you anealed it first though. I'd keep the cold hammering down to a minimum.
(just my opinion )I recall an artical on cold forging in Blade. I think it that it was in the last year.
sweat does sting when it gets in your eyes, I use a piece of old undershirt. nothing to look at, but very functional.

 

[Bruce Evans]

A rag to wipe the sweat
Thats what I have been doing wrong,I just use the back of my dirty gloves and my dirty arm,I thought that I was supposed to turn black anyway.I figure if I aint sweating I aint forging
I work my steel at the hottest temps that I can as long as I don't burn the steel,Until I get down to the finsh hammering of the bevels then I start cooling it down somebut not cooler than a bright redish orange in the sun....I prfer to get the metal moved as fast as I can without damaging the steel and thus I don't hurt my elbow anymore than I have to.
Bruce

 

[Eric M Ericson]

hay I didn't say wipe the sweat, just tie it on and get black, prety soon you can't tell it from the rest of me

I look good in black

 

[Bruce Evans]

You know that is why I wear my hat when forging.it not only keeps the sparks,or should I say scale and hot Borax off my head but it does soak up the sweat.But during the summer it is just to HOT to wear a hat
I did try a rag in my pocket to wipe off sweat once,but after about a hour of forging it was of no ue to wipe sweat with as I was so wet all over from sweat that it wouldnt stay dry.
One time I was doing a demo for some grade school kids and one of the little girls wispers a question in her teachers ear,and then I here the teacher chuckel a little and out loud say "no honey he is not Black,to be a Black Smith is just the name of the proffesion" I then explained to the little girl that after a couple of hours forging over a coal fire you turn black from the smoke and soot.And I had to chuckel to myself also.
Bruce