Forging high alloy steels

J

Jstainton18

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Aug 20, 2015
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Fairly new to smithing and have been working almost exclusively with 01 and have had good results. I've begun to use A2 and am slowly getting the hang of it although I have turned a few feet into crumbled dust! I forge and heat treat in a charcoal forge. Lurking on your forums and on others I've found almost no information on forging high alloy/ PM steels. My local supplier has some A11 kicking around that he's been sitting on for over a year and is willing to give it to me cheap. I'm not dumb enough to think I could use it now, I'd wait until I've got my a2 and d2 down pat, but would forging ruin it? How do other high alloyed steels react to forging like elmax 4v s30vn etc? I know my heat treat is never going to be as perfect as a calibrated oven so am I losing out on all the performance benefits if I can't get it 100%perfect?
Thanks a lot!

Also if anyone knows where to get charcoal cheap in Ontario please let me know!
 
Jstainton18 said:
I know my heat treat is never going to be as perfect as a calibrated oven so am I losing out on all the performance benefits if I can't get it 100%perfect?
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Yes, you will lose performance.

A11 austenitizing soak times are 5-60 minutes depending on the austenitizing temperature. How will you maintain the narrow temperature range for the required soak time with charcoal?

The tempering temperature for A11 is 1,000°-1,150°F for two hours. How will you maintain this narrow temperature range for the time required?

Do you plan to wrap the blade in foil to prevent decarb?

Other alloys you mentioned with have similar soak times and temperature ranges.

Chuck
 
I made and forged some Maraging steel while in school.Had a nice power hammer .Forging range was narrow and below that the hammer did nothing ! The more stuff you have in the steel the more difficult the forging. So for simple steels the simple methods are fine .For complex steels use a power forge ,good temperature control , control of atmosphere .
 
I use a forge muffle so far and as long as I'm on the ball I can dial the temperature fairly well with my air control, I don't have a thermo couple to verify this is just based on colour and I can maintain a colour pretty well for a duration. I loosely pack the bottom of the muffle with charcoal fines and have had zero visible decarb so far. It for sure is a rich atmosphere because the outside of the muffle pipe shoots out a flame. To minimize my chances of screwing up I was going to shoot for the highest aus temps possible to keep my duration down. I'm thinking I'll definitely have to invest in a thermocouple for those high heat tempers cause I really don't have any accurate way to gauge temps that low. Questions? Comments? Curse words?
Am I insane to even try?
Thanks guys!
 
If I outsource the ht, and take that variable out of play is forging it still a bad idea? Would I be getting a noticeable improvement over traditional tool steels? Or is the forging going to make it pointless to upgrade the steel?
Thanks guys!
 
Oh I know that, I'm just wondering if forging in a charcoal fire would detract from its performance enough to make it not worth the effort.
 
Make sure you burn the sulfur out of the coal before heating the steel. I've read that high alloys steels are more prone to sulfur absorbtion, which can have detrimental effects. You should get Karl Schroens book. He has lots of good info on working high alloy steels, though I would highly recommend you get a good oven and use it for heat treating, instead of the forge like he says.
 
Search YOU TUBE for Biochar
This guy that makes charcoal like compost. His 2 drum idea/design would allow you to make charcoal out of wood scraps.
FYI old dresseers on the side of the road on garbage day are often made out of hardwood. The Ikea stuff is MDF and ucan be used for fuel not for charcoal.
 
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