Forum Photos - evaluating / critiquing maker’s & collector’s knives?

Kevin Jones

Kevin Jones

Joined
Oct 28, 2006
Messages
13,363
This may be an uncomfortable subject for some, however very important in my opinion considering the number of knife photos posted here by makers and collectors each week.
Many collectors and especially makers post photos seeking opinions on their knives from members.

IMO, makers and collectors open themselves up to scrutiny in posting photos of their knives and should expect and accept it whether positive or negative.

Some here are skilled at critiquing and giving honest, constructive and non combative feedback for even the most horrific example of a knife. Others are painfully direct and insensitive with their criticism and opinions, and it seems there’s one or two among us that have never seen a knife that didn’t deserve praise.

I post photos of my knives mainly for two reasons; one to create interest and to possibly make a market for the piece in case or for when I decide to sell and second to get opinions and to identify and perhaps learn from my mistakes on knives where I participated in the design. I do hope forum members demonstrate a little tack and compassion in communicating their negative opinions, however I do accept and consider them no matter how presented.

When I first starting participating here I was told by a prominent collector, that we don’t generally criticize collector’s knives here but it’s OK to criticize maker’s knives as its part of their learning experience.

I guess there’s some merit to this philosophy in that makers should welcome being made aware of defects in light of trying to not repeat mistakes. However IMO collectors, (especially new collectors) need to be made aware of defects too as part of their knife education and possibly benefit from experienced collectors pointing out defects which novice collectors may want to address with the makers when posting their new knife.

I believe we all enjoy viewing the beautiful knives shared here, but find it interesting that some makers and collectors never post photos of their knives, while others seem to post every one.

So why do you post, or not post photos of your knives?

Do some makers consider posting their knives risky with more to lose than gain?

Do makers in fact benefit or suffer from the close observation of their knives and opinions formed from their photos being posted on this forum?

At times collectors may get too caught up in the excitement or too involved in the maker’s creation of the knife and develop an allusion that the knife is more than it actually is. Do they benefit from getting unbiased opinion here even if it lessens their appreciation of the knife?

Is it correct to assume that if a maker or collector accepts and relishes the praise and positive posts that he/she should also take the critical post in good spirits too?

If you don’t care for a particular knife or see defects, is it better to post your opinion or just keep it to yourself?

Any other thoughts or views on the subject??
 
Hi Kevin,

This should be an interesting thread. I post knives on here regularly. When I post them I am hoping for, and will usually ask for opinions on the knife. As a maker I feel it helps my designs to get the feedback from collectors and also other makers. I will take into account the feedback I get and may or may not incorporate the info into my knives depending on the response that the knife has gotten on a broader scale. While at the same time I do keep in mind that everyone has different tastes and opinions on style. It is a balancing act for me.

For me, I think the exposure that I have got by posting my knives has been a positve expierence.

Craig
 
Kevin,
I have a very small amount of experiance to draw upon for this topic. I have posted a few knives that I collect and I also have posted a couple knives that I am learning to grind on.
If and when I post I am looking for feedback and the sharing of ideas.
Initially I am hoping that people will share my taste in knives and affirm to me that I have made a wise decision in buying a particular knife or in my design ability and craftsmanship in what I have made.
I am also looking for feedback to the opposite. If I am going down a path all by myself in my purchasing taste or my knifemaking endevours that nobody else appreciates, Then I want to know that (A) I have no taste (B) I am leading the pack in a new direction (C) I have made a wise decision and the market agrees with me in case I want to sell this later.
My opinions are formed by what I see and experiance as are all of ours. I personally do Not want anything sugar coated. If there is a better way to do somthing I want to know. I'm not interested in reinventing the wheel, show me how its made and then I'll get on with moddifing it.
When I was first exposed to knives I was very impressed with my Buck folder that I had grown up with but through exposure to people like yourself I now desire to own knives from Rodriggo and Mr Fisk. One day I might travel down to see Jerry and ask him to teach me what he has taught many others.

Good or Bad I want your honest opinion. What I do with your opinion is up to me but by posting I am opening a door for you to give it to me. If everybody sugar coats it then none of us learn anything. Ultimately that is why I am here.
On the other hand there is no need to crush anybody because they bought a NinjaOpsCarbonFibreTacticalHandForgedLimitedEdition knife. But it is great to point that guy in the right direction.
 
The response that you got back then was predicated upon an informal poll that I did here, where the other collectors said that they did not want their knives critiqued. I personally try to hold to that, except for you, mostly because you are not thin-skinned about a differing opinion. Some of our esteemed fellows get their manties bunched in a wad when you say something less than pleasant.

Some makers(SAR, KBA, Winston.......) have reacted so negatively to past feedback that I don't bother anymore......let the sunshine be blown up the "4th point of contact". If the maker is open to it, says to me that the maker is confident in their work, and willing to hear suggestions, even if they don't implement them.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
I'm a relatively new maker. Right now I'm trying to get my name out into the market and also find my niche by playing around with different styles and materials. I want to be criticized. The key is keeping that criticism constructive.

Simply saying "I don't like that." or even a less tactful response (as is sometimes the case on open forums) is useless to me unless it is qualified by giving details of what you don't like about a certain blade. I want to hear things like "I'd like it if the tip was further below center" or "I don't like the way the handle is shaped".

Constructive criticism pushes me to become a better maker. Whether that criticism is due to personal taste (handle and blade material, finishes, etc.) or construction and technique (HT methods, edge angles, tang construction) doesn't really matter so long as it enables me to try a different method or material and improve my work (or make it more desireable).

have a good one,

Nathan

*edited to add* - criticism in an open for sale forum is tactless IMO. PM's and e-mails are great though.
 
As a maker, I welcome any feedback, positive or negative. Just because I think my design is great does not mean I expect everyone to agree with me (I'm biased, after all- if I didn't like it, I probably would have never made it).
These comments are also coming from your customer base, for the most part, and I feel it would be a bad business decision to not consider thier likes and dislikes. If I didn't want an honest opinion on something, I probably wouldn't post it at all.
I don't post everything I make on here, mostly because my time is occupied making knives- however, I do like to share when I have a design I'm not quite sure of, or when I'm very happy with a knife and want to share it. Either way,I am looking for straightforward opinions and appreciate every one I get!:D
 
I don't post photos for critique but will take the negative with the positive.

I post photos to promote my work, to promote custom knives and to add to this forum.

This forum needs knife photos, the more, the better. :D
 
I don't think every photo posted is an invitation for a critique, but the poster will inevitably have to take what comes.

My general rule of thumb is:

1) If the poster has requested a critique, I will give one. I find this happens more off-forum than on.

2) If I generally like the knife, but don't like something specific about it I will say so. But I won't be an ass about it. One can be honest without being a jerk.

3) If I really don't like the knife at all - something that's just hideously bad or just completely not to my taste - I'll generally choose to say nothing at all.

I don't really see this as a big problem overall. I have posted most of my knives on this forum at one time or another and don't mind in the least when someone says they don't like a particular feature. The only person that has to like the knife is me.

Roger
 
"This forum needs knife photos, the more, the better. "
Wise words. The few knives that I have posted were for the purpose of sharing with the hope that some of the Forum members would get the same "kick" out of the knife that I did.
It amazes me that some of the Forumites have an opinion to share no matter what the subject matter.
I can't help but think that the quick criticism keeps some veteran collectors from posting and keeps far too many "newbies" from even attempting to post.
 
:thumbup: thumbs up to Roger's general rule of thumb.

RogerP said:
1) If the poster has requested a critique, I will give one. I find this happens more off-forum than on.

2) If I generally like the knife, but don't like something specific about it I will say so. But I won't be an ass about it. One can be honest without being a jerk.

3) If I really don't like the knife at all - something that's just hideously bad or just completely not to my taste - I'll generally choose to say nothing at all.
Click to expand...
 
KellyGlanzer said:
Kevin,
I have a very small amount of experience to draw upon for this topic. I have posted a few knives that I collect and I also have posted a couple knives that I am learning to grind on.
If and when I post I am looking for feedback and the sharing of ideas.
Initially I am hoping that people will share my taste in knives and affirm to me that I have made a wise decision in buying a particular knife or in my design ability and craftsmanship in what I have made.
I am also looking for feedback to the opposite. If I am going down a path all by myself in my purchasing taste or my knifemaking endeavors that nobody else appreciates, Then I want to know that (A) I have no taste (B) I am leading the pack in a new direction (C) I have made a wise decision and the market agrees with me in case I want to sell this later.
My opinions are formed by what I see and experience as are all of ours. I personally do Not want anything sugar coated. If there is a better way to do something I want to know. I'm not interested in reinventing the wheel, show me how its made and then I'll get on with modifying it.
When I was first exposed to knives I was very impressed with my Buck folder that I had grown up with but through exposure to people like yourself I now desire to own knives from Rodriggo and Mr Fisk. One day I might travel down to see Jerry and ask him to teach me what he has taught many others.

Good or Bad I want your honest opinion. What I do with your opinion is up to me but by posting I am opening a door for you to give it to me. If everybody sugar coats it then none of us learn anything. Ultimately that is why I am here.
On the other hand there is no need to crush anybody because they bought a NinjaOpsCarbonFibreTacticalHandForgedLimitedEdition knife. But it is great to point that guy in the right direction.
Click to expand...

Good points Kelly.
Some of our most interesting exchanges here in my opinion have come from opposition and discussion around critical feedback. Two examples I can think of quickly regarding my knives would be varying opinion as to whether to engrave the Fisk Gambler's Set or not. And then there was the difference of opinions regarding the choil condition on my Dean EL Diablo which went back and forward for about 50 post on this forum. Yep adversity and differing opinion equals interesting interaction.

You should come to Jerry's Micro Show one year as it's quite a unique combination of mini-hammer-in, knife show, knife sale, raffle, feast, party, seminar, testing facility and BS convention. ;) :D
 
Kohai999 said:
The response that you got back then was predicated upon an informal poll that I did here, where the other collectors said that they did not want their knives critiqued. I personally try to hold to that, except for you, mostly because you are not thin-skinned about a differing opinion. Some of our esteemed fellows get their manties bunched in a wad when you say something less than pleasant.

Some makers(SAR, KBA, Winston.......) have reacted so negatively to past feedback that I don't bother anymore......let the sunshine be blown up the "4th point of contact". If the maker is open to it, says to me that the maker is confident in their work, and willing to hear suggestions, even if they don't implement them.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
Click to expand...


LoL Don't think it was ever the knives or your critiques we just do not get along:D

Steve if we ever met, I bet we would find lots of common ground:cool:



spencer
 
SAR said:
LoL Don't think it was ever the knives or your critiques we just do not get along:D

Steve if we ever met, I bet we would find lots of common ground:cool:

spencer
Click to expand...

Yep, no doubt SAR, even though STeven and I go at each other here at times, we have become good Friends. :thumbup:
 
If I post pics here, or in the Gallery section, it's because I want to share the knife with others. Part of it is that there's been plenty of times someone posted a knife I'd never seen, or a maker I wasn't familiar with, and seeing the pictures helped to expand my knowledge base or turned me on to something I subsequently found interesting. If anything I posted has ever done the same for someone else, I think that's a good thing.

If criticism comes, it comes. If it leads to a good legitimate discussion where my understanding of knives and the people who make and collect them is enhanced, so much the better. If it's just a flame, something deliberately intended to sabotage and derail the thread, well, such is life on the internet. Just click on the next thread and move along.
 
I post photos of my knives so that others can see them. I don't mind criticism at all, but what really counts is what I think of the knife. Everyone has a different opinion on what looks good, and I will never base my purchases on what I think will appeal to others at a future date.

When I critique a knife that has been posted here I try to be kind while letting the poster know about things that I don't find appealing about the knife. If I don't like the knife at all, I tend not to comment.

It upsets me when people get angry when someone gives constructive criticism. It shows that all they were actually looking for was positive reinforcement. If you don't want honesty, don't ask for people's opinions. However, criticism should be tempered with empathy.
 
SAR said:
Steve if we ever met, I bet we would find lots of common ground:cool:

spencer
Click to expand...

I have no doubt about that, Spencer......have much respect for you, sticking to your guns in making; listening to your heart in how and what to make, AND in your contribution of Service to the country.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
RogerP said:
My general rule of thumb is:

1) If the poster has requested a critique, I will give one. I find this happens more off-forum than on.

2) If I generally like the knife, but don't like something specific about it I will say so. But I won't be an ass about it. One can be honest without being a jerk.

3) If I really don't like the knife at all - something that's just hideously bad or just completely not to my taste - I'll generally choose to say nothing at all.

Roger
Click to expand...

I agree Roger. Perhaps we should all stick a post-it note on our monitors with these rules. :thumbup:

All I would add is to consider if anyone will benefit or is there anything to gain by the critique? If not, best left alone.
 
Pictures tell part of the story that words can't.

Words describe much of the story that pictures can't convey. Both are necessary AND vital.

On the net all we get is a 2D view, so it better be good.... ;)

Mosty makers are so proud of their immediate project that critical/constructive feedback, unless specifically asked for, is going to be a downer. "Hope you like" is not asking for anything. "Tell me what you think" opens the door farther.

I refrain from critiquing other's work. I have to. It's a slippery slope. And, boy, have I got comparisons to draw from.

I think a decent rule of thumb for any critique, would be an equal amount of praise: There is ALWAYS something pleasing or positive to say, and it creates a balance and a truce of sorts.

That said, I have always drawn praise for my photos, but I KNOW there are those who don't like my style. They have been silent. I should be as vulnerable.

Coop
 
I wish more makers and collectors would post photos, not just here and other forums but anywhere that makes sense.

Think of how many beautiful custom knives that go from maker to collector to safe. Kind of a shame when you think about it that more people don't get to see and enjoy them.

And besides, the more people that are exposed to customs knives the better for us all.
 
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