fossilized whale bone

L

LSCG

Joined
Dec 27, 2012
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hi, I had a quick question,

is it legal to use fossilized whale bone for Knife Handles and such?

I thought it would be but i wanted to make sure before I used some.


thanks!
 
It would probably be best to go to the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service web site, and look for
the Marine Mammal Act...
 
All whale materials are governed by NOAA, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. Not like most other marine mammals that are governed by the USF&W Service, I know, go figure. It is legal for you to use ancient whale bone on knife handles. You can sell the knife when you are done but only within your own state. Interstate commerce of whale parts is prohibited.
 
There is a difference in ancient and fossilized. If it is truly fossilized, it is a stone like material. Fossilized materials are not covered in the regulations prohibiting use.
If it is merely old (as in hundreds of years old), it is covered by the rules as Mark noted. Where all this gets gray is when old hard stuff gets called fossil material. It is the degree of mineralization that determines where the line falls.
 
thanks for the info Mark!

though we've never talked before I have read many of your posts and just wanted to say how much I appreciate you sharing your Knowledge!
 
Bladsmith,

thanks for the info!

I believe it's fossilized, when I cut the pieces into scales they cut like Ivory does and when I clank them together they sound like pieces of rock or marble, they're also a reddish brown color and look very similar to mammoth ivory or fossil walrus ivory.
 
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A group of close up photos would be very helpful.

Fossilize material does not cut like ivory on a band saw. It is a stone like material that requires a diamond saw to cut. Old bone, often called fossil ( but different from fossilized), is like you describe. That may or may not come under NOAA Fisheries jurisdiction. It would be best to get someone familiar with the difference to tell you.

Additionally, lots of fossil mammoth bone and tusk is dredged up in crab and scallop dredges, as well as washes up on beaches. This is tens of thousands years old, but cuts and looks like you describe. Anyone familiar with these materials can identify which is which. It would not surprise me if it was mammoth.

Either way, you can legally make a knife from it...and sell it within your stale boundaries.
 
Just a curious side question, are the Inuit permitted to sell non-fossilized whale bone to the lower 48?
 
Unprocessed whalebone is not allowed to cross state lines, regardless of who harvests it. Natives can harvest and process it legally within the state. My understanding is that it has to be tagged with the "Authentic Alaskan Native Handicraft" seal to be sold to tourists or leave the state. Without the seal it is illegal.

Mark can probably elaborate more.
 
As I understand it, no whale bone is legal for sale across state lines by anybody. There was a push buy Alaska Natives to require a native handicraft seal so that only native people could deal in these materials or carve in that style. It did not go through although there is still an optional native handicraft seal. It is not legal for any non-native to buy, sell or trade unprocessed fresh whale bone. A non-native may own it if you find a piece of whale bone while beach combing, from a species that is not endangered. If you find a piece you must have it sealed by NOAA and then it must stay what it is forever. You can not sell or trade it, or make it into something else. The only thing you can do with it is give it to someone. If it is from a species that is endangered, it will be surrendered to officials when you go in to get it sealed.

If it is fresh and a native handicraft or if it is ancient it can be bought, sold or traded buy anyone but not across state lines. Now, there is disagreement within enforcement as to what constitutes "interstate commerce". I have been told by some people in NOAA that I could sell knives with ancient whale bone on them to visitors from other states that come into my store in Fairbanks and that they could bring them home. But one officer in USF&W told me if I knew a person was from another state it would not be legal for me to sell it to them. There also seems to be a small group among USF&W that feel no non-natives are permitted to have un-worked whale bone of any age, but there are many non-native carvers that work in whale bone openly and they have been checked out by officials. So there you go.

It is for these reasons that I have discontinued to deal in whale bone. It is just not worth the hassle or the risk of getting into trouble.

This is just the way I understand it from talking as much as I can with enforcement but I am not an expert. I learn new things every day and it's not easy to get clear answers. Things are handled differently in different jurisdictions and by different individuals within jurisdictions.
 
LSCG said:
thanks for the info Mark!

though we've never talked before I have read many of your posts and just wanted to say how much I appreciate you sharing your Knowledge!
Click to expand...

You are welcomed.

From what you say, I can say with some certainty that you are cutting some kind of ancient (what we often call "fossil") material. It most certainly is not fossilized, because as Stacy said, you would not have been able to cut it. How did you come to suspect that it is whale? As Stacy said, it could be almost anything. You don't know unless you know, you know?

With a picture, it's possible we could tell, but if it's bone, and only a fragment of a bone, it's quite possible we could never tell.

Because it is ancient, whatever it is, it's legal for you to make a knife with it. You would not want to make a knife and offer it for sale on the internet as whale bone because the internet is an interstate market and that would not be legal. Have fun.

Mark
 
Great and well stated advice....Thanks, Mark.

As Mark pointed out there is a lot of disagreement among officials and others about interstate commerce and what is or isn't legal. Technically, if it is legally bought in Alaska, and the owner takes it home with him/her to Virginia, then it is still legal in Virginia, and was legal to take out of Alaska as personal property. However, any F&W or NOAA agent at an airport could confiscate it if they don't agree with that. Technically may win in court, but it won't help you at the TSA table if the officer doesn't read the law the same as you do. Even if you win a legal case ( at great expense.... if you win) they may still refuse to surrender the item. In AK, it is greatly a matter of the discretion of the agent. The AK F&W folks are far tougher on this than the folks in the lower 48 or DC. I have discussed this and similar issues with Stacte ands Federal agents an directors, and they say once it leaves AK and is in a state with no specific local laws, it isn't an issue.

If I were in AK, I would probably do as Mark does and stay clear of the problem all together.
 
I've been off the forum for a while and just now saw the new reply's,

Mark, the pieces were sold to me as Whale rib Bones, never having worked with whale bone before I just took his word for it. i'll take some pictures of them tomorrow and post them up, I'd love to know what it is for sure if possible.

once again I appreciate everyone sharing their Knowledge and advice!
 
Yep, those look like ancient whale bone to me, and some very good pieces at that. Those will look great.
 
The gap between law and justice grows greater every year. Reading through the (largely stupid) sheer number of regulations regarding restricted types of bone and ivory make it readily apparent why the black market is so huge.
Those do look great! Can't wait to see the finished product.
 
Fossilized and perfectly legal. Nice looking scales. Work it with fresh belts...and go slow.
 
Anyone know how "Hippo" ivory is classified? Does it fall in the same category?
 
Hippo is currently a non-regulated ivory, and clearly identifiable from other ivories.

BTW, I meant to comment on the fossil slabs. They could be whale, sea cow, walrus, or even mammoth. Once brown and mineralized it is nearly impossible to tell one from the other without a microscope. I have a bunch of nearly identical mammoth scales that could be twins for that set.
 
No, I would say that they are whale for these reasons,

Too big for walrus.

Because many of them are perfect book matches and because of the shape and the curvature they can not be mammoth leg bone.

They are too big for mammoth rib bone and the bone wall is too thick to be mammoth rib bone.

They could be Steller Sea Cow but the cross section of sea cow is triangular (that's what I am told by people that study these things) and I have never seen sea cow curve in that direction. These have a flat curve as apposed to a compound curve.

Anyway good stuff and legal to use. The reason I want to make clear the distinction is because interstate commerce of whale bone is not legal, it is legal with all the other things mentioned. I would not want to see another friend of ours get his butt in a jam.

All the best, Mark
 
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