Found "real" swords finally?

D

drjones

Joined
Sep 6, 2000
Messages
913
Hello all. I've been looking for "real" swords for quite some while now, and I think I may have found them. First, what I mean by "real" is just that - a real sword that you could take into battle with you. (With all the sword fights we have nowadays, right?) I just don't want to collect stuff that you can't use. If I'm going to have a weapon on my wall, I want to be able to use it! Anyway, someone mentioned www.swords-n-stuff.com and they claim to have "battle-ready swords designed for use and re-enactment." They are very nice looking swords at even more attractive prices. Does anyone have any experience with these swords to be able to attest to their claims?
Also, where would I look to find this "real" sword of my dreams?

Thanks!
Strati
 
Sorry, I haven't seen too many positive reviews of vaciacraft swords here or elsewhere. They are typically far too heavy, poorly balanced and not very historically accurate.

For a bit more money unfortunately you could have a Del Tin or a Kris Cutlery sword, which have had numerous positive reviews.
 
Run away! Run away! Forget swords-n-stuff I have heard they are pretty crummy to deal with and as Zeke mentioned vaciacraft is pretty pathetic as well. I second the suggestion to look at www.albionarmorers.com but I would look at the Angus Trim swords myself. They aren't as pretty as Del Tin but they perform like nobodies business. Also I'd have a look at www.armor.com those swords are not only pretty but the perform as well. Hope this helps.
 
I suggest you look into swords made by Raven Armoury. They are in England, and they aren't cheap. What they do is the closest to real that I've seen, especially on their European blades (haven't handled their oriental stuff, so I can't say). They are often in Atlanta for the Blade Show, though I'm not sure about this year. I lust for one of their broadswords almost as much as I do Virgil England's fantasy stuff.

Paul
 
RUN AWAY RUN AWAY!!!!!
DO NOT do business with Swords-n-Stuff.

I ordered a sword from them a couple years ago and it was an absolute nightmare.

The sword I got looked NOTHING like the sword in the picture (I know better now) and was of such poor quality it looked like the hilt had been welded together from old coat hangers.
I immediately returned it trying to be very reasonable and get either an exchange or a refund.

I tried for over a month to get in contact with them, they wouldn't pick up the phone on their 800 number, just asked you to leave a message on the machine, and then after doing so, they'd CONSISTANTLY fail to return my calls.

I sent email after email and finally, only after telling them by email that if I did not hear from them by 12 noon Central time the next day, I was going to go into every single blade/sword forum I KNEW of and totally trash their rep, did they respond.
They called me at 10am that morning. (Yes, I was watching the clock.)

They finally sent me a slightly better and slightly more expensive sword at no extra charge, but I swore I'd NEVER do business with those people again.

Their excuse for the shoddy business practice?
It was the busy holiday season.

They finally made it right, but only after I was forced to resort to threats against their business did they even acknowledge my existence.

Avoid this bunch like the PLAGUE!


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Tráceme no sin la razón, envoltura mi no sin honor
Usual Suspect
MOLON LABE!
 
Well, now it seems like you trashed them although they called...
biggrin.gif


Seb
 
Hey Seb,
Yeah, it looks like I did, but then again I didn't tell them I'd with hold the facts if asked. (No, I wasn't asked specifically, but in general, yeah!)

I just can't in good conscience hold my tongue and let someone just getting started in swords possibly get very badly burned.

(Yeah, I know you're funnin' me, but I thought about that very thing when I wrote that earlier post.)
biggrin.gif



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Tráceme no sin la razón, envoltura mi no sin honor
Usual Suspect
MOLON LABE!
 
Hi,

Back to the original topic...

I think for below $500, you can get either a Criswell Katana in A2 steel ,or a Paul Chen sword (Chinese or Japanese styled). The former should be very battle ready (but is in all black and uses a kydex sheath) and the latter has the traditional Japanese/Chinese look.

To see more upmarket offerings from Paul Chen, go to www.bugei.com. Prices are typically over $800. Many are semi-customizable (length and colours)

If money is not an object, I think Howard Clark's L6 Bainite katana is the ultimate Japanese-style sword I know (in terms of performance + looks). Fully fitted, it will cost over $4,000 from Bugei. His Sanmai blade (3 layers of steel) looks great (many slightly less battle worthy?) but will cost more...

If performance is all that matters, then I think money can be saved by a Wally Hayes Tac Katana (approx $2,500, but as the name suggests, it is black and performance oriented) or Jerry Hossom's Espada (a short sword) (approx $1,400).

My personal favourite is actually the Esapada and I have 1 on order. You may wish to check it out at http://hossom.com/gallery. In CPM-3V it should be very battle ready and very light! Couple it with a Sandy Morrissey tooled leather sheath and it is my idea of the ultimate sword.

Bladeart.com also sells some swords in the + - $500 range. Although I cannot attest to their quality as I have not handled them, I do believe they will be superior to items from swords and stuff.

Hope my limited knowledge helps.
smile.gif
Hope you have fun searching for swords...there just aren't enough sword makers out there, so that may be why you have trouble finding battle ready items...
frown.gif


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History is littered with the wars which everybody knew would never happen. ~Enoch Powell, Speech to the British Conservative Party Conference, 1967~
 
I haven't chimed in much in recent times, but I guess I'll add some minor input.

I have, and will continue to promote avoidance of things labeled "tactical." I also have strongly supported the more historically "proper" side of things. You may as well hang a machete on your wall if you want something tactical.

I don't remember if anyone has brought this up in this thread, but if you want a sword you can use, you should learn how to use a sword. What styles do you like? Don't ask around for the "most effective," just pick the one you like the most and try to find training in your area.

If you can't find training locally, you can search for some online sources that will show you some rudimentary skills (though with various types of swords, you can get contrasting views of technique and style, so be careful). Also be very cautious. People have a serious problem thinking they're invincible against their own sword when they don't have any real training. You may think you're smart and wouldn't do "dumb" things like cut yourself, but people who cut themselves seriously probably thought the same thing. So exercise caution when handling a real sword.

Which style you like? We can go over various price ranges in various types of swords, but I'm assuming you want something in the sub-$500 category, so I'll describe a few options. The two biggest categories are probably Japanese-style and European-style.

Japanese style...low end of the price range is Hanwei's Practical Katana, sub-$200 category. Higher up in the same manufacturer's line are the Golden Oriole, Shinto, and Musashi models. These run from $400-630 depending on whom you buy from (be careful). Kris Cutlery makes cheap cutting swords that are OK out of the box and make neat remounting/reshaping/polishing projects. They also stand up to abuse, but that's not what a sword (especially Japanese-style) is all about. Rob Criswell is improving his models, though I still have troubles recommending them because I don't support that audience.

European swords...Del Tin is a classic name in European-style swords. Arms and Armor makes great reproductions of historical swords. Lutel has earned some respect in recent times as far as I know. Angus Trim swords are rapidly gaining a wide amount of popularity as no-frills swords.

I'm sure there's a bunch of other makers/suppliers that would be good, but these are off the top of my tired head.

Options are out there...just gotta know what you want and know what your priorities are.

Shinryû.
 
Age of Chivalry

I ran into their booth at a renn fair in town. Their weapons are properly balanced and seem quite effective.

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Spydies... Bet you can't buy just one.
ICQ# 117419996
 
well, thanks all so much for your help!!! What do you know about Paul Chen's Practical Katana?

Thanks again!
Strati
 
I have the largest size Criswell and a Chen Musashi. The Musashi is an exceptionally large sword with a long grip, supposedly based on the sword used by the legendary (and very large) warrior of that name. The first one I got had a flat spot about 6 inches back from the tip that would have been a real fight to sharpen. The replacement was ground very well and has a good edge. The same' is real but very low grade, as you would expect from the price. The leather wrapped handle feels better than I thought it would, but nothing like real silk cord. The temper line is strong and very attractive. The tsuba is very plain but the scabbard is pretty nicely finished. All in all, not bad for the bucks.

The Criswell is quite different. The tool steel blade is hollow ground. It takes a good edge and looks like it will hold up under heavy cutting. The blade stock is very thick and it feels more blade heavy than a lot of other swords I've handled. The level of polish on the blade is much less than the Chen. The tsuba is laser cut on mine, but those are no longer available as far as I know. The grip is paracord wrapped and pretty comfortable. I would like it to be a little longer, but that's mostly personal preference. The scabbard is really just a kydex cover. Mine does not have any fittings for mounting on a belt, pack, etc. (but this may have changed on later models). I'm going to do some cutting with it this summer and will try to report the results. It certainly feels hell-for-strong and the design suggests that it will cut well.

DPD
 
drjones:

Chen's "practical" model katana ia pretty much the least expensive usable quasi-japanese-style blade that I know of. The handle is glued/pinned in place if I remember right, so you basically have to destroy the handle if you want to take it apart. Finish isn't great, balance isn't great, but you can't expect much if you're paying so little. The same-kawa isn't real, the fittings are very basic, blade as far as I know still has the overetched discoloration common in Hanwei's swords.

DPD:

The Musashi model in fact is not really based on any swords the real Musashi used. However it does sport the famous double-cucumber style guard/tsuba that is attributed to him.

Also, the hollow grind is something that needs to change in Criswell's swords. He's made some BIG improvements such as ditching the big loop and shortening the handle length a little...so no doubt his work is evolving into something better than it was. I'm considering giving another lecture on the lack of importance of bashability in swords, but I think nobody is listening.

Shinryû.
 
Robert,

Thanks for the Chen info. I know relatively little about Japanese swords and must admit that the needle on my BS meter twitched a little when I was told that the sword was based on something actually used by Musashi. Hence my use of the word "supposedly".

Thanks also for your comments on Criswell. Have you ever heard any remarks from someone who has done some cutting with one of his swords?

Your input is greatly appreciated,

DPD.
 
If you're looking or a European style sword and you don't have a mint to spend on a custom forged piece, give Atrim some serious consideration. Angus doesn't sell direct to the public, he distributes to resellers, Albion, Christian Fletcher and Tinberblades (there may be others, but I know of those three off the top of my head). One thing to be aware of is that not all Atrim sellers will handle the same blades. Some Atrim swords are only available through one particular reseller and not the others. This allows the different resellers to have different swords on offer, but from the same maker with the same high standard of quality construction.

Angus doesn't forge his blades, they're cut from steel blanks with a computerised milling machine and then heat treated. His swords are made first and foremost as performance cutting swords. There is very little ornamental detail on his swords, so they can appear plain, but as someone else said earlier in this thread, they cut very well.

go to www.christianfletcher.com and www.tinkerblades.com

The man behind tinkerblades is a custom smith in his own right and also offers custom made swords.

The web address for Albion was posted near the top of this therad.

There is also Arms&Armour ( www.armor.com ) who get their blades from someone else (I'm not sure who) and assemble the swords themselves. They are more expensive than Atrim but also have a good range of rapiers (Angus doesn't do rapiers, he makes earlier mediaeval style swords). They also pay more attention to ornamental detail than Gus does. There are reviews of several Arms&Armour swords (and others) at www.sarpedon.com

Del Tin has also been mentioned. They're based in Italy but distribute to several sellers in the US. Del Tin make museum display grade swords (ie, Del Tin swords are on display in a number of museums around the world). They temd to be a little heavier than the antique swords they're based from and usually ship with blunted edges, but resellers can sharpen them on request and they appear to be very well made. I heard recently that Del Tin have an order backlog of 8-10 months (there's only 4 or 5 people actually making the swords at Del Tin). They offer a wide range of mediaeval and rennaisance swords. They have their own website at www.italpro.com/deltin/index.htm

I can't think of the names of any of their US sellers at the moment.

A couple of makers in the Czech Republic are starting to become known in the US, Lutel ( www.lutel.cz )and K&K Art ( www.kkart.cz ). I've seen a few comments about Lutel swords that have all been positive, but I haven't seen any comments about swords from K&k Art.

Here are a couple of web pages that are link pages to armour and sword makers across the US and Europe.

http://gateway.to/ARMORLINKS
http://therionarms.com/resources.html

Other people have commented about Japanese swords, and since they're not a significant interest of mine, I don't have much information about what's available.


 
Just a couple of minor points. I'd avoid www.atar.com. JPH makes beautiful stuff but is notorious for long waits and poor customer service. Age of Chivalry to the best of my knowledge carries blades originally made for Twilight's door by Angus Trim. They were to be sold under the name of Willow blades there. TD folded and AoC got their stock. The prices are very unreasonable for Angus Trim's stuff. As far as I know Arms and Armor does their own blade making though stock removal.
 
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