found this at the scrap metal salvage place

1

1vintageporschelover

Joined
Jan 9, 2011
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4
first post here and looking for a bit of a hand. may or may not be anything but definitely kewl and was fould in scrap metal pile at our local scrap metal dealer. gave it to my 13 yr old for his wall. couldnt see anything to identify a name or etchings or just dont know where to look. handle is solid brass i think as its tarnished and turning green with patina. any ideas appreciated and hope its not stolen,...:eek:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/1vintageporschelover/

tell me where to look for anything to identify this unless its junk, or if its the lotto winner,...(holding my breath)
 
If there were to be any markings they'd be right at the base of the blade. :)
 
it sure looks old, but cant tell much from those pictures. look it over for any markings with a magnifying glass.
 
The pattern is from the civil war, yes, but I cannot confirm or deny its authenticity without closer, more detailed photographs. If it is authentic then it's in REALLY bad shape.
 
can i hurt the value of this by buffing and cleaning?

bad shape is accurate until you consider where I found it and also where it would be right now if I hadnt grabbed it...?

what is this worth even in bad shape?

what kind of pics should i be taking to give you guys the best views for valuation and authenticity?

what is this called and what would it be used for? what are the chances that parts of this have 'been inside human bodies'??
 
1vintageporschelover said:
can i hurt the value of this by buffing and cleaning?

If it's authentic, then yes. A lot.

bad shape is accurate until you consider where I found it and also where it would be right now if I hadnt grabbed it...?

Yes, but in terms of overall condition it would be considered bad. Good snag though! :D

what is this worth even in bad shape?

Depends on if it's authentic or a repro. There are a lot of repros out there (likely more than there are originals in existance), and if there aren't any markings the chances of it being one are high.

what kind of pics should i be taking to give you guys the best views for valuation and authenticity?

overall shots, closeups of the hilt showing as many angles as possible, detailed shots of the blade, and shots of where parts come together.

what is this called and what would it be used for? what are the chances that parts of this have 'been inside human bodies'??

It resembles a Union cavalry saber, and even if it's real the chances of it having seen usage in battle are incredibly slim. Less than 1% of all injuries and casualties during the Civil War were the result of edged items, and most were self-inflicted.
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Blue text mine. :) It's a really cool find, regardless of authenticity. It's just generally safer to be a skeptic when it comes to ID'ing Civil War pieces since they're such a popular genre for fakers. :o
 
i had already used some cleaner at base of blade to see if i could see anything which i didnt but theres so much muck in the way. added some new pics so maybe those will help you see something. it looks real to my untrain'd eye as i can generally spot a repro anything fairly easily. if its a repro, id say the repro'd it around turn of the century but what do I know. you may see where I cleaned a tiny bit at base of blade and on the blade side of the hand shield/cage or whatever its called. thanks and keep the comments coming, this is kinda fun-mini treasure hunt.

if its real, whats it worth in this condition?
 
Well I'm not seeing anything glaring that's jumping out at me, though maybe someone who's more experienced than I am can chime in. In that condition I wouldn't estimate it as being worth more than $200, if genuine, but I haven't looked at the going rate in a long time now so I could be way off in either direction. The blade looks either to have been broken or deliberately modified, and the grip would normally have had a wire wrap on it, though damage and loss of the wrap is pretty common. That's about all the info I can really give you for now without pulling stuff out of my you-know-what though. :D
 
The unstopped fuller at the base of the blade points away from the American Civil War unless it is one variety of Confederate manufacture. These are sometimes regarded as Dog River cavalry swords. There are maybe three or four people I am familiar with that might have an opinion from the photographs alone. One is a very erstwhile poster over at http://swordforum.com and I have not seen Andre Ducote replying in some time. He would be one to also recommend Rafael Eledge of Shiloh Relics and David LaSlavic of Arizona Swords. Chuck? of Civil War Preservations would be another.

My books and knowledge of these as a possible is a pretty slim guess but worth following up with an expert. The Federal swords and their imports of that era have stopped fullers. It is possible another country was the source and some of the French 1822 pattern cavalry officer swords have an unstopped fuller but much of the hilt is a bit different that the example you show here.

There are a few other well learned military sword buffs over at Sword Forum International and it might be worth your while to register there. George Wheeler, Sean Scott and Mike McWatters are fairly regular there and have a good eye for the topic. I am Glen C. aka Hotspur there and round about but my focus is a bit earlier than the ACW. GC Roxbury comes to mind as well but he is mostly a naval collector, still with a lot of Confederate "awareness".

Don't do any more unless something is visible below the crud. Look carefully for script/cursive looking lettering and numbers on the spine of the blade. That would point to French but I don't think you will find anything.

Cheers

GC
 
1vintageporschelover said:
first post here and looking for a bit of a hand. may or may not be anything but definitely kewl and was fould in scrap metal pile at our local scrap metal dealer. gave it to my 13 yr old for his wall. couldnt see anything to identify a name or etchings or just dont know where to look. handle is solid brass i think as its tarnished and turning green with patina. any ideas appreciated and hope its not stolen,...:eek:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/1vintageporschelover/

tell me where to look for anything to identify this unless its junk, or if its the lotto winner,...(holding my breath)
Click to expand...

I wouldn't quit my job just yet, this isn't really my area but it looks like one of those gosh awful Indian/ Pakistani sabers.

Hmm, well that will teach me. On edit I see that Glen had just beat me in with a post. He knows more about these then I do, so if he isn't willing to write it off out of hand, I guess I'd better sit down and shut up. :)
 
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I wouldn't quit my job just yet, this isn't really my area but it looks like one of those gosh awful Indian/ Pakistani sabers.
Click to expand...

That is a possibility as well. One episode of the show Pawn Stars was telling. A fellow brings in a sword that is later examined by a professional and deemed quite nice and most likely (99.99999%) original but the pawn owner still wanted nothing to do with it because the way that market is and with fakes everywhere. That doesn't mean good swords don't sell, they do and at some pretty jaw dropping prices. The market overall is pretty soft but the real prizes keep changing hands.

However, good or bad, this one has had better days and even if truly southern made is unlikely to even pay a semester of college for the son.

BIGMICK45 on Ebay sells some of the nicer reproductions for the civil war buffs.

Cheers

GC
 
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