Foxy Folly's First Sea Trial

Dave Rishar

Dave Rishar

Joined
Oct 25, 2004
Messages
3,178
Have you ever had one of those pieces of furniture sitting around that was technically nonfunctional and really should have been discarded long ago, but you just never got around to it?

I had a rattan chair. The swivel had broken on it years ago and it was nearly impossible to sit on. I'd circumvented the problem by placing the back against a wall to support it. While no longer an acceptable chair, it soldiered on for some time as a place to put things. It probably would've remained there for years to come.

Several of us were admiring the Foxy Folly's balance and suddenly, without a word, all eyes fell on the chair. After a moment of silence, someone remarked that it was time for the chair to go. Then came the mention of the Foxy Folly. Before anyone knew what was really going on, the chair was on the chopping block.

Things got a little out of hand but a test is a test. I was curious, not only about the Folly's heat treat and its ability to hold an edge, but also how such a thin blade would fare against some enthusiastic mishandling.

The aftermath, with my assistants, Ben and Jon:

chair1.jpg


The splitting maul was necessary to remove the base of the chair. I didn't want to chop up any metal bits with the Folly...yet.

Yes, I did get a few licks in there, but Ben and Jon did most of the work. If they couldn't break it, I doubt that I will.

The victorious Folly:

chair2.jpg


Despite some bad contacts the edge held up fine. It picked up some toothiness that could be felt with the thumbnail but couldn't be seen. It aquired a nick that's probably too small to photograph; it can't be seen easily without very good light. It nearly disappeared (and the toothiness was gone) after a stropping. Part of this may be because I thinned the edge a bit on the belt sander. (Old habits die hard.) It's probably too sharp as it is. I may increase the angle a bit the next time it's on the belts.

So far, so good. The heat treat appears solid. Even the tip held up fine. My concerns are largely gone. I intend to perform some serious woodworking later this week. Green wood ought to be a piece of cake. I'm very curious to see how it tolerates seasoned pine.

If this one is any indication, these are really going to be amazing. Everyone's first comment seems to be disbelief at its weight and its fabulous balance.
 
The eyes fell on that rattan chair like the last dog in the Donner party.

Hey, look at those guys on the porch and that chair- do you think anyone will be breaking into that house soon?


munk
 
Since it held up on rattan it'll hold up on anything, except rocks or steel that is.;) :D
Rattan is some dayumed tough stuff and is harder than most hardwoods. Most knives, and axes, just bounce off of it leaving only minor cuts.:eek:

I'm interested in how well it cut the rattan, did it actually cut through those rounds with one hit Satori?
 
Great review, Satori. I'm glad to see that your FF held up to the rattan chair. It gives me confidence in mine. Looking forward to the next round of testing.

Bob
 
Kismet said:
I'm calling OSHA.
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Call OSHA. I call them all sorts of things on a daily basis. ;)

"...last dog in the Donner party." Indeed. I'm going to remember that one. It had me laughing out loud.

The smaller pieces weren't difficult to sever in a single swing but the larger ones were. The chair had a lot of give to it and it reduced the power of each swing substantially. If we had a straight piece of that diameter and it was mounted firmly, and I was coming down at an angle, I suppose that I could get through it in one swing. I'll try to hunt down some rattan but I may have to make do with bamboo. (Not a lot of rattan growing in the PNW. Not a lot of bamboo growing here either but everyone seems to be selling it.)

However, as for cutting the vee and breaking chips loose, it wasn't particularly difficult. It was tougher to cut than green alder and easier to cut than seasoned pine heartwood. The pine's going to be the real test - I've seen this stuff dull felling axes. Chopping on the heartwood makes a khuk ring like you're hitting metal and the sensation in the wrist is similar.
 
Kismet said:
Tell jon to put some shoes on . . .
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Never wear them myself unless I have to. I'm one of those people that can walk across gravel like it's carpet.

Besides, it's easier to hold onto lengths of steel and wood with bare feet, freeing up your hands to work a chisel, drawknife, file, saw, etc., etc.

Ask the kamis.


Great report, Satori!

Noah
 
The pine's going to be the real test - I've seen this stuff dull felling axes. Chopping on the heartwood makes a khuk ring like you're hitting metal and the sensation in the wrist is similar.>>>>>>>>>> Satori

Satori. where I live in Eastern Montana there's a lot of Ponderosa Pine. When it drys, it can become a real challenge. A lifetime spent facing constant wind, 40 below and 100 above with drought makes for twisted and dense rings of growth. The sap combines with the wood like epoxy, and makes the material even harder. I cut a branch off a tree once that made all the blades bounce. Frankly, a thinner khukuri would probably not stand the abuse. My Ganga Ram finally did it, I think.

I sometimes think people aren't understanding me when I talk about the initial tests of all my khuks, slamming them as hard as I can into dried Pine. They think, "Pine? What's that? I've a cheap dresser made of Pine and I can pick it up with one hand."

I like reading your posts about khuks because you use them hard, like a madman. I get a kick out of it. Geeze, the late Pappy would have laughed his head off reading about that chair.



munk
 
Munk, I used to be one of those pine guys. "Pine is a softwood. When you're done crying about how tough your softwood is, get back to cutting. Idiot." The problem was that I hadn't yet encountered the right pine.

Out at the Camp (in the Ghost Forest specifically) we've got pine like you mention. We get some good winds there and it's an actual microclimate; there are times when you're trudging through the snow and can see sunlight and bare earth at either boundary. Additionally, the Ghost Forest spent years (if not decades) underwater for most of the time. The pines mostly died, but they lingered on for some time producing the gnarled monsters that we have today.

To make matters worse, the ones that're dead typically have been dead for a while. You have thick crumbly bark that absorbs energy like a sponge, branches like springs and resin-impregnated heartwood that's long since cured. As I said, the sensation is similar to striking metal. Penetrating several millimeters on a good swing is the norm. When chips depart, they do so with enough energy to smart. It doesn't take long to get the blade too hot to touch on this stuff and it'll ring like a bell on each swing. I consider it severe, but not improbable test medium. Good steel/good heat treat/good geometry and it will do fine. If one of the variables is missing, it will not.

I ought to make a club out of this stuff someday.

munk said:
I like reading your posts about khuks because you use them hard, like a madman. I get a kick out of it. Geeze, the late Pappy would have laughed his head off reading about that chair.
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I know that you know this but I ought to clarify the point for some of our newer members.

I do these tests primarily for my own peace of mind, but also as a public service. I can't really trust a tool until I know what it can and cannot do. While the more extreme things get posted here, there's a bit of work involved getting to that point. I do not take a tool out of the box and proceed to beat it to a pulp on the hardest piece of wood that I can find; there's more involved than that.

When I first came here, checked out the HI website and saw what owners were saying, I was a bit skeptical. I was not used to using high quality pieces of gear. (I was used to using pieces of gear made by the lowest bidder, actually, and while it's sometimes good, just as often it's not. The guys who dream up the specifications for my equipment are seldom if ever going to have to use it.) I learned my lesson well enough - good steel, good heat treat, good geometry and the rest will take care of itself.

I start slow. The piece gets a pretty close inspection. If it's going to get used, it gets etched; I don't want to guess where the hardened zone is, I want to see it. It receives the Yvsa Receipt Inspection after that; I consider this a little harsh for some things but Bill was a firm believer in it. Better to find any glaring problems early, rather than later. (Although I haven't had a failure yet, you'd better believe that I'm not standing in line with that khuk when I'm whacking the sides on a piece of wood. I believe in hedging one's bets.)

Then it gets sharpened. I usually rework the edge a bit as well. I tend to make the angle a bit obtuse if anything; it will still cut fine and I'm more concerned with durability than shaving ability. I don't shave with khuks...although it's fairly cool to be able to do so.

Initial tests are pretty light - thin green wood, plywood, etc. I'm not looking for minimal damage, I'm looking for no damage at all. If anything happens I sharpen it again. Usually it takes a sharpening or two to get down to the good stuff. That typically takes care of the problem.

Then, and only then, do I start having fun with it. I progress up to a point where I feel that I've satisfied my curiosity and it really depends on the khuk. Swords seldom are pushed beyond plywood. (That's quite enough for a sword, actually.) Sometimes I stop at seasoned alder. Sometimes I go on to the pine. Occasionally I'll do something stupid like steel trashcans, a truck's fender, or concrete blocks. When I'm done, I'm done. No need to keep pushing things if I already know that it'll do it. I'd rather keep that extra capability in reserve for when I need it.

I've done some things that would probably be considered crazy but I've never personally taken an HI product to failure. If I did, and I was doing something crazy, I wouldn't ask for a replacement. The warranty is there but it's not there to be abused. These things are pretty amazing but they're not invulnerable. Push one far enough and it will fail. I like mine enough not to do that, but at the same time I want to toe the line. I've got to know.

And it's not just khuks, either. It's my firearms. It's my car. It's my computer. It's my boots. If I rely on it, I've got to know what it can do and what it can't, within reason. Once I'm happy, the issue is settled. If it failed, it failed in a safe environment. No harm, no foul, except possibly to my checkbook. I consider such a lesson inexpensive.

The public service aspect of this is that if it meets my standards, it's good to go in my eyes and I have no problem in recommending it to others.

Madman? Yeah, probably, but there's a method to my madness. I can trust my life to all of my users. They passed the test. What more can a guy ask for?
 
The wife:
"Oh my gosh Ben! Are you reverting to childhood?"

Me:
"Nah babe, we just had a couple beers"

The wife:
"Remind me not to let you drink around sharp objects again"


Every once in a while I get the wild hair to head over to Satori's place and I have yet to be over there with the impression that there's a lack of things to do. Last night was one of those nights. New here, and this I think, is my first post, so I'll leave it at that, just verifying what he's been saying about the "treatment" of his gear. These khuks definately stand the test that is CWH. One of my first encounters was with his 30" ankola (sp?) on a road that was covered with scotch broom, worked myself to exhaustion but loved every second of it. Since then, it's always a treat when he brings 'em out on days when there's a light workload. The new crew's a bit skittish when it comes to khuks, but I start grinnin like an idiot when he breaks out somethin new.

That FF is one damn fine blade. The balance and weight give the impression almost of a small knife, but with one hit cut into that rattan about half way, another cut gave a satisfying "V" but the other half of the wood tore rather then cut, due mainly to it's... springyness, rather then lack of an edge or quality. When swinging at the smaller stuff (the back rest and seat), the satisfaction of slicing through 3 at once (about 1/2" thick, give or take a mm) is something beyond description. A good side swing with that thing was litterally like swinging just your arm but when it hit, it was like hitting something with a bat. The force it applies and the amount of shock to your wrist is kinda wierd, swinging something like that one handed as hard as I did, I was a little surprised that I felt next to nothing as far as a jarring effect.

Not quite as articulate as Satori or some of the other regulars here, and my experiences with khuks has been limited to clearing scotch broom and goin down to test the durability of some age old pines. So I'm slightly at a loss for words for describing something like that. I'll just say, when I do get my first HI khuk (and stop leeching off Satori's obsession), I'm definately goin for a Foxy Folly. Working with all shapes and sizes of khuks, feeling the weight and balance of his small arsenal, the FF stands out above and beyond anything he's got so far. In my humble opinion.

Nice to meet you all.
 
Welcome to the forum GunnerIke...

I got to tell you...that Satori? He's an animal...

.
 
munk said:
Geeze, the late Pappy would have laughed his head off reading about that chair.



munk
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I am afraid (read ashamed) to say that I have not thought of Pappy in a while. I did not know him like some here but I miss him being around. :( I learned alot from him and got alot of enjoyment from his post. Sorry for the highjack. Thanks for the report Satori. When I saw rattan I was afraid that the test would not end well. Glad it did as well as it did. I really want one now.
 
Satori,

Yes, I try to match the test to the Khuks job description. I know what you mean about tough wood that also yeilds to the blow- amazing. You can't finish the job because it springs away.

Sounds like you have a lot of fun, and a lot of satisfaction, Satori. As do I.



munk
 
Welcome GunnerIke.

You know when you''re using the khuk correctly because, as you say, it's like hitting a baseball with the right part of the bat.

As you probably know, hitting wood as hard as you can, though, is not the right way to cut, and is very destructive and even dangerous. I use it in testing a blade so I can count on it later.






munk
 
Yeah, Satori's corrected me quite a few times on that, and I try to take his advice, but c'mon now. When you're holding something that nice, with more then a couple beers in ya, it's good to take a swing or two.

We've gone out and tested each method, the quick 'tapping' and the full arm swing chop. The tapping worked suprisingly well and was about 1/5 as tiring as the full arm swing. The swing, if fast and hard enough, did go fast, but the amount of energy it took wasn't really worth the 10-20 seconds time it saved. Up until Satori started learning abit more about proper form and what-have-you, we were dealing with poorly made, $5 machette's from the lowest bidder that was pretty much just cut out of sheet metal. So the tapping method would get the bark off a tree but that's about it.

I'm sure Satori's gone over it in-depth already.

Been back-reading alot of posts here, seems like a good community and I'm sure when the time comes to actually get my grubby little paws on my 2nd khuk, I'll be buying more and posting more. (My first and only khuk is this cute little 8" guy that came as a Christmas present).
 
For the record, I learned the "woodchuck" method of tapping my way through from Hollowdweller. It's the only way to go with the lighter khukuris and works well enough with the larger ones. One really needs to see him in action to understand just how effective it can be.
 
The look on Satori's face when you come down on something when the angle is off a bit is just painful. So I've been tryin to take it easy, but our practice time at camp has been cut down quite extensively.
 
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