frame locking, liner locking -- what's the story? Why is it better?

C

cognitivefun

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Oct 24, 2004
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I am confused about what frame locking is.

I have a Camillus Heat and now a Ritter mini-grip. I love the way the Heat opens one-handed and the way it locks open.

But I do not understand what frame-locked or liner-locked means. Can you please help explain this to me? Thank you.
 
Frame Lock Blah blah blah.... Liner Lock blah blah blah...no seriously, the Frame Lock is inherently stronger than a Liner Lock. Just ask Chris Reeve! :p
 
A folding knife is made of very few parts, with fasteners holding them together, and a lock of some sort to keep the blade from closing until you want it to. It has a blade, handle slabs, and sometimes the handles have liners, slabs of metal inside the usually non-metallic outer handle slabs.

In a linerlock, one of those liners has been bent so when the blade is rotated open, the liner snaps into place behind the tang (the part of the blade inside the handle). To close the liner lock, push the liner back against the outer handle slab with your thumb while reaching up to the back of the blade with your index finger and pushing the blade down, blocking the liner lock from engaging again, and allowing the blade to continue closing.

A framelock works exactly the same, except there will be no outer handle slabs. What would have been the liner is the body of the knife, the frame, and the lock engages out in the open. When locked and gripped, your hand is actually helping holding the lock closed.

There are variations of both styles. The framelock is increasingly popular, as there have been problems with some linerlocks opening under pressure, especially torque.
 
The Benchmade Axis lock, the SOG Arc lock, the Cold Steel Ultralock, and the Spyderco Ball lock all work about the same. A bar runs through a cutout near the top of the handle. Springs push this bar forward, but there is nowhere for it to go when the blade is closed. Once the blade opens, the bar moves forward, pushed into a notch on the back of the tang. Only when the bar is manually pulled back away from the blade can the blade return to the closed position.

These locks tned to be smoother and easier to manipulate than most others, and they do hold the blade under great pressure, but I myself always felt that in a high-stress situation, there is a possibility of the bar being knocked away from the tang, releasing the blade.

The Ball lock differs in that the ball itself does not protrude out the sides of the cut-out. This makes it slightly harder to access for closing, but much more secure against accidental release.
 
Thanks, this is very helpful for this Newbie.

My Camillus Heat Robo Power(tm) seems to be a liner lock from your description. And the Benchmade Doug Ritter mini Grip is an axis lock...am I correct?

What is the Sebenza?
 
The axis lock looks like the Cold Steel and the Spyderco, but it does not work exactly like them, enought to call it similar.

The Axis uses an "omega spring". It is tunable and unlike coil springs, not likely to break. It drives the locking bolt forward. It absolutely will not fail in a "high stress" situation. There is a spring on each side of the frame. the failure of one spring will not compromise the integrity of the other.

The axis lock was also designed to keep the fingers away from the travel axis of the blade during closure.

McHenry and Williams were the total innovators with regard to this locking system. Everyone else just got creative with working around the patent, and I know all of the players involved in this type of locking system.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Steven, how about the old Gerber Bolt Action? Also similar deep down inside, though, and preceding the axis lock. All these locks share the characteristic of a spring-driven bolt being pushed into place to block the tang.
 
As liner locks go, the Heat has a very good one. The foldover design ensures that there's a larger contact with the tang regardless of wear.

Edited to change "frame lock" to "liner lock" Duh!
 
How do the liner and axis locks compare to the lockback in terms of strength and reliability? Also, which of these mechanisms is the least prone to gumming up with dirt or snow/ice if being used outdoors in the winter?

Will
 
Balisongs, framelocks, and lockbacks generally shed dirt most easily, since the moving parts are out in the open. Even if they do get gunked up, you can see it.
 
Bolt action did not use an omega spring. That is a crucial difference. I think that the bolt action used a coil spring, more like the D.O.G. by Grant Hawk, than the McHenry-Williams action.

Regards,

Steven Garsson
 
Will said:
How do the liner and axis locks compare to the lockback in terms of strength and reliability? Also, which of these mechanisms is the least prone to gumming up with dirt or snow/ice if being used outdoors in the winter?

Will
Click to expand...


I've never owned a lock back, but I've heard that they can fail due to lint build up (?), the stronger you make them, the harder the harder they are to open (?) and they can just plain wear out in a few years.

Linerlocks will shrug off crap very well due to it's simple design, you may need to rinse it out every once in a while. They can wear out, and as I look at my Scallion (Kershaw), I can see that the lock removed the blade coating and possibly some blade material from where they come in contact. They can also wear out.

Axis locks will cope with dust and stuff fairly well, the axis bar tends to push lint off the tang where it contacts it (I can see some lint build up in 2 lines going across the tang) they don't really wear out from what I have heard, but if one of the omega spring breaks, you'll only have about a week of use before the second (kind of a back up) breaks. So if one goes send it back ASAP.


Please note:

I have not poured sand, dirt, ice, or anything else to try to jam my knives.

Have a nice day! :)
 
underaged! said:
I've never owned a lock back, but I've heard that they can fail due to lint build up (?), the stronger you make them, the harder the harder they are to open (?) and they can just plain wear out in a few years.

Linerlocks will shrug off crap very well due to it's simple design, you may need to rinse it out every once in a while. They can wear out, and as I look at my Scallion (Kershaw), I can see that the lock removed the blade coating and possibly some blade material from where they come in contact. They can also wear out.

Axis locks will cope with dust and stuff fairly well, the axis bar tends to push lint off the tang where it contacts it (I can see some lint build up in 2 lines going across the tang) they don't really wear out from what I have heard, but if one of the omega spring breaks, you'll only have about a week of use before the second (kind of a back up) breaks. So if one goes send it back ASAP.


Please note:

I have not poured sand, dirt, ice, or anything else to try to jam my knives.

Have a nice day! :)
Click to expand...


I've never thought of the fact that the spring, or "bent" part of a liner lock could rub the blade every time it opens or closes, but I guess it would only be a problem if you had some sort of coating on the blade, or something there to be rubbed off, or some finish to be messed up.

I think I will think this through before I buy a CUDA Dominator, probably will post a thread asking about it as soon as I'm done here.

Thanks

Charlie
 
underaged! said:
but if one of the omega spring breaks, you'll only have about a week of use before the second (kind of a back up) breaks. So if one goes send it back ASAP.
Click to expand...


Where did you hear that? I've only heard reports of a handful of springs breaking at all, and have not heard of both breaking yet. I know I've read where people used the knife with just one spring for quite some time before sending it in to be replaced.
 
I think it might have been on the spyderco forums. I forget, another "which lock is best thread"
 
Please clarify something. My Camillus Heat has two studs located on both sides of the blade near the spine heel. When I open the knife, those studs lock against the frame and prevent the blade from being pushed further back.

But there is also a lock preventing the blade from closing. This appears to be a "liner" lock...it is a tab set against the heel side of the blade, and the tab is an extension of the inside liner.

So is this a frame lock example or a liner lock example?
 
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