Framelock question.

camoninja

camoninja

Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
1,359
On the upper end frame locks (CRK, Hinderer, Grayman etc.) how long does it take for the lock to wear down say from everyday use ? Once it is worn down will the blade develop play ?

Thanks
 
It all depends on the knife. All Ti frame locks are not equal.

CRKs will outlast any production Ti frame lock since it has a treated lock face. Others (Strider especially) wear out and develop play pretty quickly in my experience.
 
Depends on which one. Striders will wear out in a few months, but CRK's are designed better and the titanium is hardened. According to Anne over in the CRK forum, they've never repaired a knife that developed blade play over normal use.
 
I've had and used my Striders for some years now (a SnG and an SmF), and neither are worn out.
I doubt I got exceptional specimins.;)

Some people also have weird ideas about worn out:
"When I grab the tip of my knife and wrench it around as hard as I can, it moves 1mm. OMG, it's BUSTED!!!"
 
stabman said:
I've had and used my Striders for some years now (a SnG and an SmF), and neither are worn out.
I doubt I got exceptional specimins.;)

Some people also have weird ideas about worn out:
"When I grab the tip of my knife and wrench it around as hard as I can, it moves 1mm. OMG, it's BUSTED!!!"
Click to expand...


There is no doubt that there are some good Striders out there, but if you are denying the fact that a LOT of Striders develop serious vertical play quickly (something Mick has stated himself, the reason for their new lock design) then you are mistaken.

I'm talking about so much play that the blade moves up and down when you shake the knife, making a clicking sound. 2 of my 3 developed this play within 2 months. 6 of the 10 I've handled personally had this play. (2 of which were brand new) Hell, I sent the SMF GG I got at blade back to Strider before the show was even over. It developed vertical play within 24 hours of having it.


If there wasn't a problem, then Mick wouldn't have changed the lock geometry. ;)



ETA: I am FAR from being the only one stating this, also. It's all over YouTube. Many, many, many videos showing the play that I am talking about.
 
I too, would be surprised if the Ti on the lock face of Striders is actually galling away in months - that seems excessive. I have had an SMF CC for well over a year and the lockface is in the exact same spot. I agree that some may come out of the assembly line not right but I have never experienced lock face wear to that degree in months and I own three Striders now which I cycle a lot.
 
Reeek said:
I too, would be surprised if the Ti on the lock face of Striders is actually galling away in months - that seems excessive. I have had an SMF CC for well over a year and the lockface is in the exact same spot. I agree that some may come out of the assembly line not right but I have never experienced lock face wear to that degree in months and I own three Striders now which I cycle a lot.
Click to expand...

It's not about the Ti galling. It's about how the Ti meets the readiused tang. If the radius is too extreme then the lock will develop play within just a few hundred openings. After a bigger stop pin is installed then the problem won't happen again for MANY years. After getting my two fixed they have been rock solid.


That's the reason they just now stopped grinding a radius into the tang.
 
I sent in a new SNG like that. I blame factory adjustment and failed Q/A. It never cut a thing and did that. Is it fun to receive a brand new $475 knife? No. But I will say they received it and fixed it and I received it back with early, perfect lock up, in 7 days. So call it bittersweet but it's a great knife now! :)

I have never seen the lock face wear out in months though.

CrimsonTideShooter said:
There is no doubt that there are some good Striders out there, but if you are denying the fact that a LOT of Striders develop serious vertical play quickly (something Mick has stated himself, the reason for their new lock design) then you are mistaken.

I'm talking about so much play that the blade moves up and down when you shake the knife, making a clicking sound. 2 of my 3 developed this play within 2 months. 6 of the 10 I've handled personally had this play. (2 of which were brand new) Hell, I sent the SMF GG I got at blade back to Strider before the show was even over. It developed vertical play within 24 hours of having it.


If there wasn't a problem, then Mick wouldn't have changed the lock geometry. ;)



ETA: I am FAR from being the only one stating this, also. It's all over YouTube. Many, many, many videos showing the play that I am talking about.
Click to expand...
 
Reeek said:
I sent in a new SNG like that. I blame factory adjustment and failed Q/A. It never cut a thing and did that. Is it fun to receive a brand new $475 knife? No. But I will say they received it and fixed it and I received it back with early, perfect lock up, in 7 days. So call it bittersweet but it's a great knife now! :)

I have never seen the lock face wear out in months though.
Click to expand...

Exactly. The lock face isn't wearing out that fast. It is due to the radius on the tang. :)
 
That, I agree with :) And that is why the tang grind angle is now so much more linear and acute on current Strider knives going out the door :) And ZT learned the very same lesson as well. It may become a new industry standard . . . Or would that be a reinvented, OLD industry standard?

CrimsonTideShooter said:
It's not about the Ti galling. It's about how the Ti meets the readiused tang. If the radius is too extreme then the lock will develop play within just a few hundred openings. After a bigger stop pin is installed then the problem won't happen again for MANY years. After getting my two fixed they have been rock solid.


That's the reason they just now stopped grinding a radius into the tang.
Click to expand...
 
CrimsonTideShooter said:
If there wasn't a problem, then Mick wouldn't have changed the lock geometry. ;)
Click to expand...

I hope they didn't take the curve out entirely.
Kershaw has used a flat tang for a long time and it has worked very well for them, but I've always thought the curved tang was superior. With a curved lock-bar interface you can have it flat at the start and move up gradually, if the lock were to slip the angle decreases until it reaches 0 degrees (in theory you could have a bit of negative angle) and should be less likely to slip off. With a good Liner Lock like the Spyderco Military it works even better since the entire lockbar can almost be cupped by the curve in the tang (that and the lockbar itself is curved so that it interfaces properly with the curved tang).
I have noticed that Strider was grinding their tangs with a pretty small radius, probably smaller than was appropriate since it doesn't do you any good to have a curved tang if the curve goes all the way to 45 degrees or something crazy like that (Buck went a full 90 degrees on one of their knives, it was depressing to see).
The entire width of the tang should be angled correctly to be used for good lockup as the lockbar wears, IMO to use the curve to prevent over engagement is the wrong idea.
 
Hinderer folders are cut very straight (not perfectly of course but not very steep) and they "carbidize" the face of the lock bar. Rob Orlando had a picture of this gizmo that they use to harden the lock bar's face posted here or another forum.

I've carried the same XM-18 for 2 years (including at home) and my lock-up is no more than 25%. I'm not sure if that's the way CRK does theirs but they both do their locks in a similar manner.

I was glad to hear that Strider had addressed the problem when I read about it a few months ago. It was the smart move and turns a good framelock into a great one! :thumbup: Now if he'd just drop the price about $100 or more so I could afford an SMF - I like the look of that model a lot and hear they're tough and feel good in the hand. :D
 
Joshua J. said:
I hope they didn't take the curve out entirely.
Kershaw has used a flat tang for a long time and it has worked very well for them, but I've always thought the curved tang was superior. With a curved lock-bar interface you can have it flat at the start and move up gradually, if the lock were to slip the angle decreases until it reaches 0 degrees (in theory you could have a bit of negative angle) and should be less likely to slip off. With a good Liner Lock like the Spyderco Military it works even better since the entire lockbar can almost be cupped by the curve in the tang (that and the lockbar itself is curved so that it interfaces properly with the curved tang).
I have noticed that Strider was grinding their tangs with a pretty small radius, probably smaller than was appropriate since it doesn't do you any good to have a curved tang if the curve goes all the way to 45 degrees or something crazy like that (Buck went a full 90 degrees on one of their knives, it was depressing to see).
The entire width of the tang should be angled correctly to be used for good lockup as the lockbar wears, IMO to use the curve to prevent over engagement is the wrong idea.
Click to expand...


A radius in the tang is actually part of the design of the "fail safe liner lock."

A radiused tang is NOT part of the original design of the frame lock. They ONLY purpose that a radius has in a Ti framelock is to allow for loose tolerances in manufacturing. A radius will be more forgiving than a straight cut, but a straight cut is both stronger and more reliable. Not to mention longer lasting.
 
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