free hand sharpening

J

justine120

Joined
Nov 4, 2004
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23
i have never sharpened a knife before and i had a question. in this age of sharpmaker, edgepro, and professional sharpening, is learning to sharpen on a stone a useful skill. i was just going to get a spydeco sharpener, but i thought a stone might be fun to learn. other than fun, is there any reason to learn to use a stone

incidentally, i was considering a norton water stone.

thanks for you help
 
It's one of the essential skills of manhood, right up there with single malt, hand rolled cubans and windsor knots.
 
Get a stone at least 8 inches long. I use an Arkansas Washita stone. Try sharpening cheap knives at first so, if you mess up a blade no harm done. The more you practice, the better you will get. :cool:
 
What's a Windsor knot... isn't that the same as clip art? Pleeease learn how to sharpen free hand on the stone of your choice. You won't always have the convenience of a jig in the field! :D
 
It’s worth learning to sharpen free hand: you’ll be able to sharpen a knife anywhere/anytime you have access to a stone, and it’s one of those skills that improves your dexterity and concentration.

Start on whatever stone you can afford, and get better stones once your comfortable with your free hand skills.
 
If you just want to get you a good starting point get an EZ Lap three pack of their diamond pads on a stick and start on your kitchen. If your kitchen is anything like mine you probably have lots of useful candidates that the wife has abused for you to experiment on.

Every now and then the wife will mangle one of our knives in the disposal and I take it out to the shop and turn it into a folder if it was a good one but you could pick those to learn on also.

Start out by reading everything you can and find a technique you think you can follow and just jump right in and don't be afraid to scratch some blades and even screw some up. The point is to take that first step and before you know what happened you will be educating someone here on the forum yourself. Use google and the other search engines and read all you can find that interests you. That is where I'd start if I was in your shoes. Back when I started there was no internet so that alone is a massive advantage at your disposal compared to what some of us 'old farts' had when we started out at it.
 
Yes. Once you learn how to free hand sharpen you can use any of those jig systems, or just about anything else. It's also alot easier than you would think. The most common mistake is putting to large of an angle on. Most people try and rush it and end up raiseing the spine and end up never getting a sharp edge.
 
I had a cheap sharpenig stone when I was a kid, used to sharpen my knife with it (not very well, I recall).
I recently purchased the Sharpmaker and, though I think it's a great system, I find myself using the rods freehand because there's a certain pleasure to it that I forgot exists.
I've got to take a minute because my renewed interest in knives is gouging a hole in my wallet, but my next knife-related purchase (probably tomorrow, if I'm honest with myself about it) is going to be 2 or 3 stones... it's such a pleasant feeling, pushing that blade across the stone looking for that smoooooth blade/stone interaction. Quite erotic. :D
 
Hijack Alert!!

Based on research only, I picked up a Buck Honemaster, well two actually. You never know what condition an ebay item is really in. BUt as usual, they were both in excellent condition. I'll follow recommendations on stones and using junk knives first.

Anyway, with regard to angle, steel, results, etc., here is a list of my current knives and I'd like to know which, if any, I can sharpen using this Honemaster:

CRK Aviator
Ritter Large and Mini
2 Katz - one is XT70, the other is XT80
Leatherman
Gerber LMF

Like a previous forum member noted, I used stones when I was younger and actually did OK...sometimes. No real plan, just some spit and dad saying, "Like this..." I'm inclined to leave the CRK to a professional, but agree that dragging metal across a stone and being able to shave with it is a huge testosterone builder.

I will read some of the links already recommended in other posts regarding technique, but was just curious if the above knifes should not be used with the Honemaster, or stones in general.
 
justine120 said:
other than fun, is there any reason to learn to use a stone
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Not really, outside of convex edges. It takes a long time to get really good at freehand sharpening to the point where you can raise a hair popping edge with little effort, and it is trivial to do with jigs, and you can make jigs very easily out of just about anything.

That being said I free hand sharpen a lot as actually like the hand work. But if that doesn't appeal to you no, it would be like learning how to make soap and wash clothes on a scrubbing board vs using a washing machine. Useful in extremes, but for most people more of a novelty.

josywales3 said:
if the above knifes should not be used with the Honemaster, or stones in general.
Click to expand...
The only reservation would be if you wanted a different angle, I would cut the primary edge grinds by hand to 10-15 degrees and then put a final bevel on with the honemaster as assuming it is similar to most guides it is likely obtuse at ~20 degrees.

-Cliff
 
"...assuming it is similar to most guides it is likely obtuse at ~20 degrees."

Cliff, is the best way to tell the honemaster angle, to just use a compass or prortractor?
 
Cliff, one last question. Stones aside, do you prefer something like Edgpro for the knives I've listed?
 
josywales3 said:
...is the best way to tell the honemaster angle, to just use a compass or prortractor?
Click to expand...
Yes, if you set the jig on the knife you should be able to measure the angle pretty directly. Note the exact angle doesn't really matter, it isn't like 19 degrees is great and 21 is horrible. As you increase the angle you gain durability and lose cutting ability.

Most jigs and systems tend to default to ~20 degrees, which is almost a uniform suggestion, however outside of chopping metal or heavy bone this is really vastly over built. For most materials like woods, cardboard, ropes, and foods, you get much better cutting ability and edge life with a much smaller angle.

Most people use a dual ground edge to get the best of both perspectives. For example freehand grind a very thin bevel, around 10 or so, just estimate it, don't be concerned about consistency or precision. Now once the edge is so formed you apply your final bevel at the very edge, this is usually much more obtuse which raises the durability a lot but because it is so narrow it doesn't have a heavy drawback on cutting ability.

As an extreme example :

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/CliffStamp/extrema%20ratio/fulcrum_modified.jpg

This is an Extrema Ratio Fulcrum II D where I radically altered the edge profile to enhance the cutting ability. The edge was about 0.035" thick and I ground it way back to ~0.005", with a tiny 20 degree micro bevel. This enhanced the cutting ability on thin ropes and wood carving many to one over the origional edges. Most edge mods are not this severe, but the principle is the same.

josywales3 said:
...do you prefer something like Edgpro for the knives I've listed?
Click to expand...
It is an excellent system, very versatile both in angles allowed and finishes. It is also capable of producing very fine high level cosmetic even edges which look almost machine cut in consistency.

Right now I hand shape primary edge grinds and set the final edge on a Sharpmaker. However the Edge Pro would certainly handle all of the above knives, easily. The only thing it really has problems with are extensive recurves and serrations.

-Cliff
 
I would suggest that you first get some old ratty stainless steel kitchen knives that never seem to be sharp, a double sided 6" or 8" sharpening stone for a couple of bucks at the hardware store, and give it a go.

You can't screw up anything. It's sort of like kissing the first girl!

When I first learned how to hand sharpen I cheated.

I could get the little blade resonably sharp, good enough for my boy scout folder because most of the blade fit on the stone so my angles were somewhat consistent. With larger fixed blades I had probs. So I cheated. I put some masking tape on the top of the blade and attached one of those little alligator clippy things that hold papers together. It measured about a 20 degree angle. It worked okay until I started grinding down my alligator clip. Then I had to spend ten cents and buy another one. This whole "cheatin'" sharpening system may have cost me $5.

Once you get the hang of it about any old river rock of decent size can be used to touchup a blade.

I have since graduated to DMT diamond 6" or 8" stones which are too easy. They are a bit pricey but they sure can pull the dull steel off the blade quickly.

I'll shutup now.
 
DGG, LMAO. We recently moved our offices and just 5 minutes ago I was holding one of the older binder clips (silver in color and pretty big). I clipped it to my Ritter Mini, laid it on the desk and thought, "why not?" It looks like a cheasy Buck Honemaster! Tonight I 'll match it up against the Honemaster for angle comparison just for laughs.

Cliff, thanks for the good info. I'll take some scrap knives and old stones just to refresh my skills. I agree with DGG, my larger blades could be more difficult, but I'll play. I actually have some stones, but don't know where I got them. 2 seem to have never been used. 1 is mounted in a wooden bas, it's about 6" and looks like white marble, very smooth. Arkansas? The other is a bit smaller and apears to be the same.
 
josywales3 said:
I was holding one of the older binder clips (silver in color and pretty big). I clipped it to my Ritter Mini, laid it on the desk and thought, "why not?" It looks like a cheasy Buck Honemaster!
Click to expand...
Pretty much. The better clamps are just more stable, you can use the little plastic snap on's to the same effect with a little care.

...6" and looks like white marble, very smooth. Arkansas?
Click to expand...
There are white arkansas stones, the ones I have seen don't look like marble though. Lots of variation in old hones, try it out and see how it cuts and the finish it produces, that's what counts anyway.

-Cliff
 
It's like learnin' to service your own cars, is it worth learning, only if ya have the time, is it mentally satisfying, oh yea.

I do it mostly to relax, fortunately after 25 years of doing it I managed to be able to get a hairpoppin' edge.
 
This is my last post on this tread I promise.

If you have some old stones (borrow them from a neighbor) that are dished I have found that rubbing them on a nice flat course concrete surface like a cinder block or the sidewalk will quickly make them flat again.

It's a good job for the kids. Give them a buck and some sidewalk chaulk and they will have a ball and you'll get nice flat stones (with smiley faces!).
 
It is very gratifying to sharpen freehand on a stone, but I still would suggest a Sharpmaker for the beginning, while you are still learning on a stone and for the quick touchup when you don't have the time or the patients to bring out your stones.
 
The basics of sharpening are the same no matter if your useing a jig, some system, or free hand. Learning how to get a sharp edge is no different with any of them. Jigs and systems do hold the angle for you but most systems have a learning curve to them. So may or may not help you learn to sharpen. It's my opinion that once you learn to sharpen free hand you can use any system or method of sharpening, and may also be able to use the systems better.
 
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