Freehand Bevel Grinding Questions

[JRB Blades]

So I know this topic has been beaten to death. I have read every thread on the topic and have gotten lots of good information. I just had a few clarifying questions for you guys.

When "walking" the bevel up the spine, where/how do you apply pressure to move the bevel up? I am pretty good at this point with cutting in my 45s. After that I can get a pretty good flat established and it is, for the most part, it is straight and even. I run into problems the higher that I try to walk the bevel up the spine.

So do you guys apply pressure with the hand that holds the tang? For lack of a better example, ever so slightly rotating the tang so pressure is more towards the spine (like increasing the throttle on a motorcycle)?

Do you use the hand that is supporting the spine of the knife and apply pressure with your index finger (the one the is underneath/on the edge of the spine) ?

Do you use your thumb that is on the side of the blade and just move it more towards the edge to remove material there or more towards the spine to remove material there?

Combination of any/all of the above?

I understand the basics of why and how to move the bevel up the spine, just not the application of said knowledge.

I have been getting mild steel from HD and cutting out a few knife blanks and practicing on those instead of knife steel. I have freehand ground about 20 or so blades so far. Definitely can tell I have improved, but am seeing a bit of a regression as of late. Below is a picture of a freehand grind that I did last week. I have tried on several blanks since this one and the results weren't as good. I regressed a bit.

 

[Mitchell Knives]

To move the grind line higher or closer to the spine, I ever so slightly twist the blade towards me and put pressure in the general area of where the grind would be. You should see a gap between the edge of the knife and the belt. This can be used as a rough gauge as to how much higher you are moving the grind. You can then reduce this gap and level the grind out. You might want to try hollow grinding your blades first (leave it very thick) and then flat grinding. Your belts will last longer and you can flat grind much more efficiently this way.

 

[JRB Blades]

To move the grind line higher or closer to the spine, I ever so slightly twist the blade towards me and put pressure in the general area of where the grind would be. You should see a gap between the edge of the knife and the belt. This can be used as a rough gauge as to how much higher you are moving the grind. You can then reduce this gap and level the grind out. You might want to try hollow grinding your blades first (leave it very thick) and then flat grinding. Your belts will last longer and you can flat grind much more efficiently this way.

I have seen the Tim Hancock and Travis Weurtz videos where they set the 45s with the contact wheel and a tilted table. Then they switch to a 90 degree table to set one (Travis) or two (Tim) different hollow grinds using a push stick. At that point they both move to the flat platen with a 90 degree table and use the push stick to grind a flat grind over those 1 or 2 hollow grinds using the table as a rest. They said the blade would naturally fall into place on the flat platen due to those hollow grinds. I have never tried that method, but it looks interesting.

 

[weo]

where/how do you apply pressure to move the bevel up?

You press where it's needed, in this case, more pressure on the spine side of the grind.
You should be watching where you are grinding each pass and make any necessary adjustments to move the grind where you want each subsequent pass.

So do you guys apply pressure with the hand that holds the tang?

sometimes...

Do you use the hand that is supporting the spine of the knife and apply pressure with your index finger...

sometimes...

Do you use your thumb that is on the side of the blade....

sometimes...

Combination of any/all of the above?

yes, but not all at once.

Sorry, I guess I'm a bit snarky today....I'll blame it on lazy housemates who don't know how to clean up after themselves....I shouldn't take it out on you.

Don't overthink this, grind and put pressure where you want material to be removed.
Also, don't feel like you need to do a full pass (grinding the entire blade) each time.

 

[john april]

yes, i turn the wrist holding the tang, like a motorcycle throttle, like your example. the thumb is used also. whatever is comfortable depending on the shape of the handle etc to change the angle of the blade. do you have a fred rowe bubble jig ? it will teach you to lock and hold your wrist at different angles. the higher the angle, the closer to the spine. its not the normal knife jig.

 

[scott kozub]

If your looking for crisp lines, fresh sharp belts are a must. You can chase a grind for an hour with a worn belt, put a new belt on and in 1 pass it suddenly it looks great. Also, crisp line are easier with thicker steel and lower bevels. The angle at which you grind is much steeper making it easier. I recently did some high saber grinds on 0.060" AEBL Fillet knives. That's a difficult grind. You can always practice on wood paint stirrers or scrap metal.

As noted above, I keep my thumb on the blade to gauge heat and pressure. I use the hand holding the tang to twist the blade. I also like to use a rest so I can just slide the knife. If your grind is wavy, like SEO said, you can put your thumb right behind the spot you need to raise and slide move the knife side to side while keeping thumb inline with the belt. This will raise the grind in 1 location while also feathering it in if that makes sense.

I also like to have the blade moving across the belt as I approach it with the blade. This helps to prevent digging in the edge of the belt in 1 spot if your angle isn't perfect.

 

[JRB Blades]

yes, i turn the wrist holding the tang, like a motorcycle throttle, like your example. the thumb is used also. whatever is comfortable depending on the shape of the handle etc to change the angle of the blade. do you have a fred rowe bubble jig ? it will teach you to lock and hold your wrist at different angles. the higher the angle, the closer to the spine. its not the normal knife jig.

Yea. I have the bubble jig. I like it, but to be honest I am more comfortable free-handing. It was helpful in that it was forcing me to maintain a constant angle while grinding.

 

[JRB Blades]

If your looking for crisp lines, fresh sharp belts are a must. You can chase a grind for an hour with a worn belt, put a new belt on and in 1 pass it suddenly it looks great. Also, crisp line are easier with thicker steel and lower bevels. The angle at which you grind is much steeper making it easier. I recently did some high saber grinds on 0.060" AEBL Fillet knives. That's a difficult grind. You can always practice on wood paint stirrers or scrap metal.

As noted above, I keep my thumb on the blade to gauge heat and pressure. I use the hand holding the tang to twist the blade. I also like to use a rest so I can just slide the knife. If your grind is wavy, like SEO said, you can put your thumb right behind the spot you need to raise and slide move the knife side to side while keeping thumb inline with the belt. This will raise the grind in 1 location while also feathering it in if that makes sense.

I also like to have the blade moving across the belt as I approach it with the blade. This helps to prevent digging in the edge of the belt in 1 spot if your angle isn't perfect.

I agree that the thicker the metal, the easier it is to grind. I will start putting on a fresh new belt and see how that goes with getting crisper lines.

 

[JRB Blades]

Tried several more mild steel blanks today. Once again the higher I try to get the bevel, the more uneven and wavy it gets. I have a bevel jig I just hate to resort to using it and would rather just stick with the freehand grinding. I’m about 25 or so mild steel blades into this. I see improve my and for the most part can walk the grind up the spine. I can even take metal from where I want to. Just can’t seem to keep them straight and even. Having some trouble with my “weak” hand getting the bevel to match my “strong” hand at the tip. I’ll try to get some pics tomorrow of the different stages and let you guys see what I am talking about.
I know it’s just practice practice practice. Just can’t wait to actually get my bevels up to my standard so I can actually make a knife!

 

[A.McPherson]

Grind your weak side first. Get it to where you are ready to switch sides, then do your strong side to match.
It's way easier.

 

[Natlek]

So I know this topic has been beaten to death. I have read every thread on the topic and have gotten lots of good information. I just had a few clarifying questions for you guys.

If one part is not wider then other and this is tungsten carbide ,why you mount it and use like that ?

 

[JRB Blades]

If one part is not wider then other and this is tungsten carbide ,why you mount it and use like that ?

The way my grinders flat platten is set up, I need those long bolts sticking out away from me when I’m grinding right handed. That way when I flip it over and grind with my left hand those long bolts are pointing back towards me.

 

[Natlek]

The way my grinders flat platten is set up, I need those long bolts sticking out away from me when I’m grinding right handed. That way when I flip it over and grind with my left hand those long bolts are pointing back towards me.

Why you don't shorter them , they look quite long ?

 

[Natlek]

I don't believe you will ever use them for steel thicker than 1/4 .Insert steel on that thickness and cut protruding bolts ?

 

[JRB Blades]

I don't believe you will ever use them for steel thicker than 1/4 .Insert steel on that thickness and cut protruding bolts ?

True. I may end up shortening them. Never really thought about it to be honest.

 

[Sam Wilson]

There are a lot of tips, tricks and jigs out there, but the best advice is to just grind a bunch of blades. Once you get it, you'll get it. It's mostly practice, and getting a feel for it.

I would also add the when I want to cut a clean grind line (like a saber grind or whatever you want to call it), when you're about done grinding and have gone as high as you want to, make sure you have a pretty fresh belt on there and make a medium to firm pressure pass or two and pull it across with a purpose, no dawdling. That is how I finish up at lower grits and then go on to refine it. Keep grinding and you will get it.

Sam

 

[JRB Blades]

Here is the latest blade on the road to freehand grinding. Using 3/16" mild steel. Started with a worn 36grit belt to cut in the 45s.

Next, I used a fresh 60grit belt to bring my grinds about 90% of the way to my marked bevel line.

Finally, I used a fresh 120grit belt to bring the grind lines up to my marked bevel line.

I still have a bit of ways to go with my grinds but they are improving (at least this one). I really focused on maintaining my angle and making deliberate passes focusing on where I wanted to remove material. It helped to only work on one part of the blade that needed to be corrected and then making a full pass to blend it all together. My center-line was maintained to where I wanted it pre-heat treat. Thanks to everyone for the tips and encouragement. Been at the freehand grinding for about 5 weeks or so and have done about 25 or so mild steel blades in that time. Definitely improving and look forward to the next one!

 

[JamesBro]

If your practicing and free hand is what your looking for, why not lose the file guide? After 25 blades you would be making some clean plunges and no file guide in your way or compromising the "feel". James

 

[Storm W]

Your grinds look pretty clean. You don't have to do much to get them how you like them. You might want to try grinding them post HT. For easy to grind steels like AEB-L, 1084, 15n20 your ceramic belts won't break a sweat. I switched a few year ago (not that I make many knives per year) and won't go back. It is way easier for me to get a nice crisp grind. If I forget about it and start grinding a unhardened blade it feels like the belt will grab every so often and then I have to even them out. Ita worth a try at least.