Freehand sharpening problem

A

aread

Joined
Aug 8, 2012
Messages
147
I'm a noobie at freehand sharpening on waterstones. However, I was getting great results by using my thumb to hold a consistent angle. I used my thumb as an angle guide and let it slide along the stone.

Well, a few layers of skin later, I was getting blood on the stone. :thumbdn:

Any suggestions for holding a consistent freehand angle that doesn't involve self mutilation?

Thanks,
Allen
 
I use my thumb also, but keep it slightly above the stone so that you just feel the stone is there but dont actually grind it on the stone. if that makes sense.
 
Juular said:
I use my thumb also, but keep it slightly above the stone so that you just feel the stone is there but dont actually grind it on the stone. if that makes sense.
Click to expand...

When I've actually done it (I don't always, but sometimes), that's what I do as well. I usually use my middle finger over the spine of the blade, to establish the 'starting reference' for the stroke, but then slightly lift it when making the stroke. The fingertip will occasionally very lightly skim the stone, but not so heavy as to be a problem.

Another possibility would be to lube the stone a little bit, with some oil or whatever, which might make it a little easier on your thumb. Or use some tape/band-aid on your thumb, in advance. ;)
 
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i'll risk a high-jack. my own freehand problem is with my zdp endura. when i first got it, it was as advertised. so i had fun with it, dulled it a bit, then touched up the factory edge to bring it back to hair whittling sharpness. after a few cycles, i decided to try for screaming sharp. the factory bevel was around 15 degrees per. i wanted to bring it down to 8 to 10 degrees per. so on free handing (3mm spine clearance above the stone,) i realized how much of a horror zdp 189 was. well, i managed to produce a sharpening bevel maybe 3 mm wide, somewhat wavy on the right side (where a right-hander sharpens it with the edge towards him.) anyway, it gets hair-whittly but after a while loses it fast, definitely faster than with the 15-degree original edge. looking at it with a lens, scratch marks are still visible right at the edge while the rest of the sharpening bevel has a mirror polish. does this mean i haven't apexed the new bevel angles correctly? will continued lapping with micron grit on glass eventually make the angles meet right at the edge? i'd hate to go back to the stones.

i feel like voldemort frustrated that he can't realize the elder wand's full potential.
 
Thanks for the suggestions. I guess that learning to keep my thumb off of the stone is part of learning to freehand. I thought about a little plastic tab, but that would defeat the purpose of learning to freehand.

Thanks,
Allen
 
When I sharpened free hand, I used to hold the stone and knife so I could see the gap between the edge and stone. That way, I just raised the spine until the space disappeared.
 
aread said:
Thanks for the suggestions. I guess that learning to keep my thumb off of the stone is part of learning to freehand. I thought about a little plastic tab, but that would defeat the purpose of learning to freehand.

Thanks,
Allen
Click to expand...

If you use a block of wood or similar to hold the stone, make some marks on it using a protractor or roofing square. I have lines on my old block for 12.5, 15. 17.5. and 20 degrees. You can also make a visual guide from a folded piece of paper etc. Sight down the blade from the spine and get a rough feel for where you're at, once the bevel is reasonably established go by feel. Ultimately to get the most out of freehanding you have to go by tactile feedback.
 
John Juranitch sells/sold a jig that clamps to the top of the blade to maintain the sharpening angle. Buck sells/sold one too. I think they were called thumbsavers.
 
My suggestion to you would be to get an ultra fine spyderco bench stone. Either the 2x8 or the 306UF. You can practice getting your angle and it won't tear your skin up. Work hard on bein able to feel the secondary bevel and how to keep the consistent angle along the belly. Buy a few beaters and go to town. Time is your best teacher man
 
hank_rearden said:
i'll risk a high-jack. my own freehand problem is with my zdp endura. when i first got it, it was as advertised. so i had fun with it, dulled it a bit, then touched up the factory edge to bring it back to hair whittling sharpness. after a few cycles, i decided to try for screaming sharp. the factory bevel was around 15 degrees per. i wanted to bring it down to 8 to 10 degrees per. so on free handing (3mm spine clearance above the stone,) i realized how much of a horror zdp 189 was. well, i managed to produce a sharpening bevel maybe 3 mm wide, somewhat wavy on the right side (where a right-hander sharpens it with the edge towards him.) anyway, it gets hair-whittly but after a while loses it fast, definitely faster than with the 15-degree original edge. looking at it with a lens, scratch marks are still visible right at the edge while the rest of the sharpening bevel has a mirror polish. does this mean i haven't apexed the new bevel angles correctly? will continued lapping with micron grit on glass eventually make the angles meet right at the edge? i'd hate to go back to the stones.

i feel like voldemort frustrated that he can't realize the elder wand's full potential.
Click to expand...

It's likely the edge wasn't fully apexed with the coarse hone. If you don't feel like re-doing the whole thing again right away, you might just raise the edge angle a tiny bit, and apply a clean microbevel with a medium/fine stone on that portion near the edge. Keep a close eye on it with your lens, so you don't overdo it. That'll at least make the cutting edge usable and more durable, for now. With your new thinner edge grind at 8° - 10° per side, a microbevel might be a good idea anyway. When the time comes to fully re-sharpen down the road, then really focus on fully apexing with the first hone, before moving to the next.

Trying to finish the apex with the micron lapping grit on glass will likely go very, very slow, especially with this steel. I wouldn't bother with that.
 
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When I attended my first sharpening course, I was told to use an inverted rubber finger tip (inverted so that the nobbs don't come off on the stone). It actually works quite well. However, I now think it is more important to actually try to feel/hear/see when you are on the edge but until you established that "feelable" bevel, the finger tip thingy is a good idea!
 
awestib said:
When I attended my first sharpening course, I was told to use an inverted rubber finger tip (inverted so that the nobbs don't come off on the stone). It actually works quite well. However, I now think it is more important to actually try to feel/hear/see when you are on the edge but until you established that "feelable" bevel, the finger tip thingy is a good idea!
Click to expand...

Those 'finger cots' (think that's what they're called) sound like a good idea, at least as a training aid. I had occasionally considered using a sewing thimble (metal) for the same thing, but didn't have one handy. Never actually tried it.
 
When I used this method on my rough oilstone, I didn't get any bleeding,even when reprofiling the edge. The results I got were amazing, I had a hair popping edge (not wire) from only using my roughest stone. Don't know why I don't use this method more often.
Connor
 
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Obsessed with Edges said:
It's likely the edge wasn't fully apexed with the coarse hone. If you don't feel like re-doing the whole thing again right away, you might just raise the edge angle a tiny bit, and apply a clean microbevel with a medium/fine stone on that portion near the edge. Keep a close eye on it with your lens, so you don't overdo it. That'll at least make the cutting edge usable and more durable, for now. With your new thinner edge grind at 8° - 10° per side, a microbevel might be a good idea anyway. When the time comes to fully re-sharpen down the road, then really focus on fully apexing with the first hone, before moving to the next.

Trying to finish the apex with the micron lapping grit on glass will likely go very, very slow, especially with this steel. I wouldn't bother with that.
Click to expand...
thanks for the advice. it was the best one i can follow. well, i did apply a thicker bevel right at the edge. got it to shave hair again but i'm afraid my endura is ruined. :( the shallow sharpening bevel i applied is now an uneven hamon-like mark at the edge. i don't get it. right out of the box i was just touching up the factory edge, first with a soft green stone, followed by micron grit on glass. and it worked. the hair-split can go on for a couple weeks without a touch-up. and i was hardly touching the steel outside of the bevel. i thought i had become adept at free handing. now the hair split disappears in a few days (although my last has been holding up.) and zdp is supposed to need the least amount of sharpening. :( :( the only improvement i got was in push cutting, owing to the thinned edge. i can push a sheet of printing paper lengthwise and it smoothly falls apart in two.
 
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