freehand sharpening w/ repeatable angle

jharpphoto

jharpphoto

Joined
Jan 22, 2011
Messages
290
I've got a number of stones that I use for sharpening but I just cant seem to get the edge that I want. Occasionally I get a OK edge but not the push cut through paper type of edge. I have spent a lot of time trying to master free hand sharpening but I'm afraid I just don't have the technique to master it. Is there a way to get a repeatable edge/angle while free hand sharpening? I know there are some sharpening systems out there that allow you to hold a consistent angle like the KME, edgepro, sharpmaker etc. I don't really want to drop the coin on the KME if I can manage to get what I want free handing. Oh great sharpening junkies teach me.
 
I get good results using the Washboard system. The feedback it provides helps ensure you are maintaining a consistent angle.

BF member HeavyHanded makes and sells them. (His user name may have a space, underscore, or hyphen between words, I'm not sure.)
 
This may sound strange, but you might find the 'right' angle for your own hands by simply taking one knife, or a handful of fairly typical, but expendable knives, and scrubbing a new bevel into each side of the edge using a method and hold that's comfortable in your hands and which feels natural to you. In my own habits, I eventually figured out that a comfortable and natural-feeling hold of the knife in my hands always seemed to yield edges that were consistently in the 25-30° inclusive range, and that suited me and my knives just fine. My bevels always finish with a slight convexity to them, but that's normal with freehand sharpening.

By 'scrubbing' as I mentioned above, I mean using a back & forth scrubbing motion with no lifting of the blade off the stone. In doing this, the hands will likely settle into a rhythm and consistency that works pretty reliably to put new and relatively flat bevels on the blade. Work on doing nothing but that (scrubbing), and not worrying too much initially about apexing the edge (but work it as close as you can). The initial goal is simply to establish a rhythm and the muscle memory to make a flat bevel on each side of the edge. Once you're into the rhythm of doing that consistently, then start going a bit further toward the apex and refining the edge with lighter passes, but still keeping the same rhythm and motion of the hands. The more you do it with that same rhythm, the more 'muscle memory' will begin to take over, even when you think it's not happening. That will carry over into the finishing/refining stages as well, eventually.


David
 
Get yourself a set of degree wedges in appropriate angles. They cost almost nothing and will allow you to hold a consistent angle on your stone or plate and thats the "secrete" to producing consistent edges on a stone.
. PM me if you want a set.

Fred
 
Fred.Rowe said:
Get yourself a set of degree wedges in appropriate angles. They cost almost nothing and will allow you to hold a consistent angle on your stone or plate and thats the "secrete" to producing consistent edges on a stone.
. PM me if you want a set.

Fred
Click to expand...

Good stuff here. You can learn free hand, guys like this will shorten your learning curve. Starting on cheap knives is the way to go.
Russ
 
jharpphoto said:
I've got a number of stones that I use for sharpening but I just cant seem to get the edge that I want. Occasionally I get a OK edge but not the push cut through paper type of edge. I have spent a lot of time trying to master free hand sharpening but I'm afraid I just don't have the technique to master it. Is there a way to get a repeatable edge/angle while free hand sharpening? I know there are some sharpening systems out there that allow you to hold a consistent angle like the KME, edgepro, sharpmaker etc. I don't really want to drop the coin on the KME if I can manage to get what I want free handing. Oh great sharpening junkies teach me.
Click to expand...

LimuHead said:
I get good results using the Washboard system. The feedback it provides helps ensure you are maintaining a consistent angle.

BF member HeavyHanded makes and sells them. (His user name may have a space, underscore, or hyphen between words, I'm not sure.)
Click to expand...

My Washboard has helped a lot of people with freehand consistency. It also teaches a method of ID'ing where you are by primarily using tactile feedback. Once you understand this principle, you will never be at a loss as long as the tool has an edge. It will also with very little additional practice, allow you to cross over and use pretty much any benchstone etc.

Even if you do not care to try one, the first video on the website (link below) has a ton of basic freehand tips with a focus on minimizing blade wobble in motion.

For setting up the edge, I used to use a blcok with angles marked on it like this:
0612021226.jpg
 
With practice, it will come naturally. At first it can be difficult, the muscles will tense too much trying to grip the blade hard, but after some time, it becomes natural. I really find an angle guide-wedge is the best way to get a repeatable angle every time you take the blade off the stone for checking.

Take some really beaten-up knives that's has not been sharpened even once in their life and try to reprofile a new bevel on the coarse stone. Or practice on box-cutter blades.

I learned my stuff from this master. From Korin Japanese Knives.
[video=youtube;KU8VVtam3ig]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KU8VVtam3ig&spfreload=10[/video]
 
The only way to really get good at freehand sharpening is to practice, practice, then practice some more! I would stay away from angle guides because I think they actually make learning more difficult since you are relying on the guide instead of your own muscle memory to keep the angle consistent. Get yourself a bunch of cheap knives to practice on and use the "sharpie trick" and a loupe to see what is actually going on at the edge. If you continue to practice everyday you will eventually get the hang of it.
 
A lot of great info from you gentlemen as usual. I'll not let it beat me.there is no short cut to perfection.
 
Why take something that is quite specific and make it vague? It makes no sense when talking about knife making and makes no sense when it comes to knife sharpening. I use jigs fixtures when I machine, weld, fabricate, forge, sharpen, make damascus and grind blades. Don't work harder, work smarter and have fun doing it.
 
I'm with Fred on this one. Guided sharpeners make sharpening a lot easier. My freehand sharpening examples beat most of the ones others have shown me. I then clean mine up with the Edge Pro and will beat the rest!
 
+1 for the HH Wash Board. One way I've grown to appreciate it is for bringing back an edge from that place of not-quite-dull, yet not-quite-sharp. With a piece of heavy copy paper and Bark River black compound, it works very well.
 
I've watched HH's videos on the washboard Sharpening system.

It looks great.

Simple, cheap.

It works because the hard acrylic ridges appear to give a a more exaggerated feedback. If your too steep the ridges act like speed bumps to let ya know. Too shallow and the blade feels slippery, etc.

Seems like a great way to reduce the learning curve with freehand.

Heck it would probably even help me detect any nuances in my freehand game as well.

+1 for the Washboard.


IMHO
Guideds handicap growth.

But I can't take anything away from people that just what something done without the time investment.

I guess it depends on if one lives to sharpen or sharpens to live.

There's room for everyones style of Sharpening.
 
My biggest advice, get a few sharpie markers. lets you know where on the edge you are hitting. It takes a long time to learn, and the "free-hand" guides will help you figure it out more than something like a lansky. But no matter what you are doing, hitting that edge with a sharpie will tell you a lot more than you think.
 
There's nothing wrong with guided sharpeners but the OP specifically asked for help with freehand sharpening.
 
fsatsil said:
There's nothing wrong with guided sharpeners but the OP specifically asked for help with freehand sharpening.
Click to expand...

True enough! The advice re Sharpie use also very important - as is stopping often to inspect it. For me the two biggest breakthroughs were to feel where I was on the blade, and to recalibrate from time to time by lowering the spine and feeling the shoulder transition with few light passes, then elevate just enough to taper off that feeling.

The toughest for me and also most useful was when I really began to dissect my mechanics to a finer and finer level (am still not done with this process). Anyone can hold a knife edge stable when it isn't moving. The instant it starts to drag across the abrasive it will not want to stay oriented, a lot of the wobble is introduced by us, not recognizing it as its happening. Imagine the difference between being trained by a master carpenter or stone carver the best ways to grip the mallet and chisels etc compared to learning on your own. Not only do you have to learn the best methods, but you have to learn the why, the principle behind the mechanics. To even begin this process you have to start out studying what isn't working in real time.

Fortunately most of us don't need to go to such measures just to make a good edge, but a little goes a long way toward reliably turning out serviceable edges, especially if asked to sharpen unfamiliar tools or with unfamiliar abrasives.
 
This doesn't fall into "free hand" sharpening, but I cannot recommend enough the clamp on guides offered by Razor Edge Systems. They have a large guide (I find it useful on 8" chefs knives) and the small guide, which is used for just about every other knife. You can use any stone you like....their warranty tho limits you to using their stones. Haven't tried their stones. I use their guides on diamond stones, Arkansas stones, waterstones, you name it.

Free hand sharpening has always come naturally to me, as I learned before memory, really, by my two grandfathers. I have a vague memory of sitting at Grandaddy's kitchen table watching him sharpen a file knife he made on an Arkansas stone. His method was to lay the blade FLAT on the stone and use circular motion on both sides! You could always tell if he sharpened a knife...it was convexed at the edge and had scratches on the blade bevel! Well, luckily I learned a few better sharpening methods than that one! I should say his knives were VERY sharp, but cosmetically challenged.

The Razor Edge Systems guides let you develop that muscle memory very well. The angle is set by the guide's placement on the knife. It is hard to get below 13° per side with the guides, depending on blade height you may or may not get a very low angle. I have never had a problem doing 15° per side with them, or higher, with any knife. If you want a guide to develop muscle memory for freehand sharpening, I think this is the answer. I have gotten to where my free hand skills may be lacking, as I really prefer the nice crisp shoulders and perfect edges you can get with it, especially on knives I make and sell.
 
after about five years of practice! trying to get the free hand down ,i gave it up! its not that i can't or could not do it,i just could not get consistent edge's no matter how hard i tried! could not get proper even bevels ether,i can get a sharp edge on my knifes but couldn't do it all the time,was hit and miss for me,so i ended up getting the edge pro out of frustration! now i can get a amazing edge all the time.:)
 
It's taken me 2yrs of sharpening frequently to be able to get a nice even bevel consistently. For quite awhile id decided I was just never gonna be able to freehand & needed a guided system. A friend gave me a lansky & I could get nice bevels & sharp edges, but it had certain limitations. So I went back to freehand & just practiced & then practiced some more. I literally wore an Endura out just practicing. And watched plenty of YouTube Videos, saw one where the guy sharpening was using his fingers along the bevel to help find & hold the angle. It took awhile to get down, but it's the technique that worked the best for me. So don't give up, you'll get it eventually.
 
I practiced iron hand techniques for 5 years, its where you drive your fist and spear hand into a large pail full of hard peas until your hand becomes extremely tough. At the end of five years I could drive my spear hand completely through a full size watermelon, long ways; I now use a sharp knife.

Its the same way I look at free hand sharpening; a lot of trial and error and frustration where as If I had just picked up a sharp knife I would have saved myself a lot of time.

Its the martial artist in me. I take problem solving head on always looking for the most useful technique that works the best in the shortest amount of time.

Nothing wrong with doing it "free hand" whatsoever. But at this stage of my life I'm interested in results, I've practiced for years, my interest is in repeatable accuracy.

I know you fellow martial artist will understand. Regards, Fred
 
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