Freehand technique

Joined
Jun 4, 2010
Messages
6,642
A short couple of videos I made, first one showing my current spin on freehand mechanical technique, the second is a practical application and very brief look at my Juuma 800 grit stone. Have been asked by a number of folk for a bit more clarification so here it is.

Especially now that Brian spilled the beans on the Seven Secrets
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1353408-The-Seven-Secrets-of-Sharpening,
no reason not to share :)

[video=youtube;SuGwd9YZ8_g]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuGwd9YZ8_g[/video]
[video=youtube;9DWdfhnpBe0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DWdfhnpBe0[/video]

Martin
 
Last edited:
Thank you for posting this. I have progressed a lot in my freehand sharpening. I can get them to push cut receipt paper most of the time. I am going to try your hand tech when I get home and hope that this puts me to the next level. I have been putting my fingers straight on blade instead of applying the light pressure from above.
 
Martin,

Thank you! Posting the same for my own benefit (BF style
that shows the video on post on Opera Mini)
[youtube]SuGwd9YZ8_g[/youtube]
[youtube]9DWdfhnpBe0[/youtube]
Are these recent shots?
 
Chris "Anagarika";15611716 said:
Martin,

Thank you! Posting the same for my own benefit (BF style
that shows the video on post on Opera Mini)
[youtube]SuGwd9YZ8_g[/youtube]
[youtube]9DWdfhnpBe0[/youtube]
Are these recent shots?

Chris, I just jammed these out the other night. One of these days I'll do a video just to show the two Juuma stones I have as there is precious little info on them available anywhere.

The technique progression is an interesting thing. As I have worked on it I could see one side becoming the "better" side for me to do, then applying the 'why' to the other side and that might take the lead. There's always a reason when things aren't working right but sometimes is very tough to nail down.
 
Martin,

Question: why is the edge trailing move at final/deburr phase on the stone?
I recalled Jason sometimes do that too, and if not mistaken, Murray Carter as well.

In my own way, my left hand is more consistent & flat than my right hand (I switch hand when switching sides), although I'm right handed. I always sharpen edge facing away as to see the spine distance from stone.
 
Thanks for the vids. Used one of your suggestions last night while sharpening a couple of kitchen knives. It helped a lot.
 
Chris "Anagarika";15612716 said:
Martin,

Question: why is the edge trailing move at final/deburr phase on the stone?
I recalled Jason sometimes do that too, and if not mistaken, Murray Carter as well.

In my own way, my left hand is more consistent & flat than my right hand (I switch hand when switching sides), although I'm right handed. I always sharpen edge facing away as to see the spine distance from stone.


Chris, not a simple answer to that. It all depends on the stone composition.

If I'm working with a hard, durable stone - India, Arkansas, diamond plate, ceramic - I'll finish with a leading pass and any backhoning will be done on paper over a stone or Washboard.

Most of the time I'm working with some sort of waterstone or SiC wet/dry over a Washboard - in that case the abrasive has some mobility. If so, (and I admit not being able to prove this microscopically...yet) a few backhone passes will result in the abrasive not biting as deep across the apex and not catching deep enough in the steel to draw out a burr. My theory is the apex becomes thinner across yet still has the same amount of up and down variation at a given grit compared to finishing with a push stroke. This makes a catchier edge and allows some nice and fairly long-lasting cutting qualities in terms of push and draw efficiency.

If the abrasive has essentially zero mobility, finishing with a backhone pass is liable to create small burring. When working off a diamond plate (my third most common abrasive) I don't bother trying to finish with a trailing pass.

I have to wonder if your better results using the left hand aren't because the right hand fingertips are better at modulating pressure or maybe just by chance have better finger placement. Perhaps the left hand fingertips are interferring with the process a bit by chance. This is the sort of stuff that really had me studying my hands and finally approaching the issue as one of mechnical advantage. If certain ways of holding the tool are more advantageous, then why? And what can I do to eliminate some of my problem areas.

I also have those hours of looking at edges under the microscope and that can be merciless - it doesn't lie, so any areas of the edge that are not homogenous compared to the rest are due to technique failure or inattention. Doesn't matter if there's variation in the stone composition (per a waterstone or mineral fracturing on a SiC stone) as long as it is a distribution within a range, any variation in edge appearance will likewise fall within that range. Anything outside that is operator error and can be corrected. It might not make the edge cut any better overall, but is a big help in eliminating problem areas.



The last real holdout for me was the heel on the left side (downside when edge facing away). That's when I realized my offhand fingertips were fighting the process by pushing too far up the bevel and making more variation than should be there. Sooo, get the index finger out of the mix, bend the fingers to direct the stabilizing force more down, lower the palm when possible.

Of course, I'm still working on all of this...:)
 
Martin,

My recent practice has been stone in one hand (static) and knife on the other (dynamic-the scrubbing one). I don't really use Japanese method, though I totally agree with the direct pressure exerted on the edge will help maintaining bevel flushed contact with the stone. I'm noticing that my right hand rocks more, but yet found the key difference. My theory is that because of less dexterity, the left hand is more consistent, also because I pay more attention.

This is something I'm also still working on, obviously:D
 
Thanks, Martin! Your video and comments are very thorough and reflected serious sharpening science. My sharpening stroke is 20-45 degrees blade to stone (0 = parallel). In post #9, your take - fixed vs free abrasive on apex shaping - is scary sharp.

For angle control - lately, I have been watching angle by keeping a fixed gap between thumb or index finger on spine against stone surface.

Good questions, Chris!
 
Tips & tricks and secrets gathered over years spilled in minutes! Martin, this is not spilling beans, this is spilling pearls!
 
When you pick up a knife for sharpening that you're not familiar with, do you do any preparation/study/practice to figure out the angle and get your muscle memory in tune before beginning on a stone? Or do you find that you have the same stroke at the same angle regardless of blade length/width/shape?

I'm coming from straight razor honing by hand and am very familiar with refining an edge but w/o variations in angle since we lay the razor flat and rely on the spine to determine a static angle.
 
When you pick up a knife for sharpening that you're not familiar with, do you do any preparation/study/practice to figure out the angle and get your muscle memory in tune before beginning on a stone? Or do you find that you have the same stroke at the same angle regardless of blade length/width/shape?

I'm coming from straight razor honing by hand and am very familiar with refining an edge but w/o variations in angle since we lay the razor flat and rely on the spine to determine a static angle.

If its someone's beater and I'm sharpening it as a favor, all I'll do is find the angle by feeling it out - elevate the spine till the apex scrapes, lower the spine till the shoulder scrapes. Now I have a good calibration and will just grind a new edge at the existing angle. In most cases though, if the steel isn't too tough I go the extra bit and lower the angle anyway.

If I'm doing a job where the better performance will be appreciated, my default muscle memory falls in about 13° or so and I'll regrind it at the lower angle. Normally I plow into and work the shoulder down, using pure muscle memory to get a new flat started. Once that's done and I have anything to reference to, I continue as described and flatten it all out, still working out from the new shoulder.
 
If its someone's beater and I'm sharpening it as a favor, all I'll do is find the angle by feeling it out - elevate the spine till the apex scrapes, lower the spine till the shoulder scrapes. Now I have a good calibration and will just grind a new edge at the existing angle. In most cases though, if the steel isn't too tough I go the extra bit and lower the angle anyway.

If I'm doing a job where the better performance will be appreciated, my default muscle memory falls in about 13° or so and I'll regrind it at the lower angle. Normally I plow into and work the shoulder down, using pure muscle memory to get a new flat started. Once that's done and I have anything to reference to, I continue as described and flatten it all out, still working out from the new shoulder.

Thanks for the reply. I guess i need to practice more to be able to feel the shoulder and apex. Must find more knives to sharpen!
 
Thanks for the reply. I guess i need to practice more to be able to feel the shoulder and apex. Must find more knives to sharpen!


That's a big part of it. Also have to realize that while the shoulder bump is a great tool, sometimes there will not be a ton of feedback at the shoulder. This is something you might get acquainted with doing convex edges.

Thin stock knives are a challenge in this respect as there just won't be a ton of feedback at the shoulder side because the difference in degrees between the primary and cutting bevels will only be a few degrees at most.

The good news in that in these situations you can elevate the spine and super gently bump off the apex but then fall back and remove more steel from the back bevel to thin it out. Since the stock is so thin it takes a lot less to correct any stray passes at the apex that might make the edge more obtuse. Again, once you are at or very near the new edge being formed you'll feel the amount of tactile feedback/drag increase.

Either way it is important to adopt a tactile awareness and response to cross reference with frequent visual inspection. For me at the finishing stage I also rely primarily on tactile feedback with fingertips for burr detection and removal - when you see me rapidly passing my fingertips across the edge this is what I'm feeling for). You can also detect a lot in terms of burr removal based on how it feels on the stone but ultimately will be a visual confirmation (and cut test) that determines how well this is done.
 
Thank you sir. Yeah i guess growing up with the taught technique of long alternating swipes has me nervous about creating a severely convex edge by the time i'm done working through the stones and lapping films i have on hand. I have been practicing with some cheaper pocket knives, multi tools, and kitchen knives to get the techniques down you've described before i attempt to fix my Hinderers.
 
Thank you sir. Yeah i guess growing up with the taught technique of long alternating swipes has me nervous about creating a severely convex edge by the time i'm done working through the stones and lapping films i have on hand. I have been practicing with some cheaper pocket knives, multi tools, and kitchen knives to get the techniques down you've described before i attempt to fix my Hinderers.

I started out using the long sweep as well, switching hands every pass or two. Has been a slow evolution to where I am now, mostly improving on speed and consistency. Shrinking my mechanics really helped a great deal. I started experimenting with circular grinding, circles about the size of a nickel. Overnight my angle control improved, and took me a day or two to realize it wasn't the circles but the reduction in travel/fewer mechanical corrections to make.

Stay on the cheapies, is a sad affair to wreck a good knife with poor sharpening and I know first hand.
 
Back
Top