Fresh in the Field with oxy acetelene question

[Digger27]

I was able to purchase a new Victor Oxy-acetelene welding kit for knife making shop in the works. Completely new to the field and am finding out that you need to get what you can since time, space and funds are limited. My forge design is coming along great and will post pix as that gets started.
Gas question. What grades are are needed for light-medium welding and cutting? What is a good starter tank size that won't run empty quickly or need 2 people to load on truck to refill? Looking into local course that works with my schedule.
Right now, juggling the space into safe working environment is the task at hand and I have 22X10 to work with. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[parbajtor]

Propane is much better than oxy-acetylene. You only have one bottle to worry about, it's much less wasteful on fuel and you haven't got inherent explosion risks from dropping the bottle or keeping it too close to the forge etc. Read about the hazards of Acetylene and then realise half of them just don't happen with other gases.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

Tech Support is for website technical questions. Shop Talk is what you're looking for , so I moved your question there.

 

[jawilder]

I have 80 cubic foot bottles and they last me a long long time for my shop uses. I got them on Craigs list with regulators and a torch for 300. They are small enough that you can own them and exchange them at most any gas supply places without any problems.

Here is a video that might help
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndGB-Ww47M4

 

[Salem Straub]

Parbajtor is right in some ways, oxy-propane is more safe and works well for brazing and soldering. However, since you asked about cutting and welding, I'd like to relate that I've never had any success welding steel with oxy-propane; it just doesn't get hot enough. It will cut ok, but I've also not gotten very good performance using propane with acetylene cutting tips. Since you already have a victor oxy-ace kit, I'd recommend acetylene. It burns a lot hotter, I have three torch/bottle sets myself and use them frequently without mishap.

I have two 280cf oxygen bottles, and a 40cf.
I have one 300cf acetylene cylinder, a 100cf , and an 8cf.

The two big oxy cylinders are unwieldy, but manageable. They last a long time but something like 80-150cf should be fine, and easier to move.

The big acetylene cylinder is very hard to lift empty, and insane to lift full. I like my 100cf bottle, it's a good size for me and lasts a good while.

The little bottles are more for demos, fairs, and field use. They don't last long but they are handy.

 

[Remyrw]

Digger, depending on your area, and your provider, you may be able to have them drop off and pick up tanks, avoiding the need for you to move them yourself. A lot of mixed gas places do deliveries and some also do propane so if you use that too...

I do a lot of contract work for a company in Hartford that does this kind of thing. They have trucks out making deliveries constantly. It's just part of their service. They're also the folks to talk to (meaning a local provider, not specifically the one here) regarding quantities, quality, mix rates, tips.... They'll know the details for their supplies and the local conditions.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

For a small shop, a 60CuFt O2 tank and a 20# propane cylinder work well for simple tasks. A 20CuFt acetylene tank is good to have on hand for welding.
Craig's list is good for tanks. Check the test expiration dates.

 

[Mark Behnke]

I have the smallest acetylene bottle 10 cu ft w/ matching oxy tank and sometimes 3 to 6 months it will sit unused. Twice now I have had an empty tank after setting that long. One bottle had a new valve from the supply house and the valves were closed so tight I could hardly get them open without damage to the valve stem.
Anyone else have a similar problem. I'll question the supplier before another refill at $36.00

I like to have gas on hand when I need it, maybe a larger tank with a larger valve?

 

[Digger27]

Thank you for info, will be talking to the supplier this week and visit the local welding supply. While propane might have it's benefits, I chose acetylene for versatility. Safety will still be #1 concern and hoses and tanks will not be stored near the forge. Taking the time to set shop up as best as I can for what I have. Will not rush. I'm sure I'll have many questions as time goes on. I check the forums for ideas and love to see what others have posted.

 

[Salem Straub]

Sounds like you're off to a good start. Welcome to the Forums, by the way.

 

[Digger27]

Thanks Salem already been to your site many times.

 

[Mahoney]

The size of the tanks you need is directly related to how much welding you are going to do, and how large a tip you are going to be using. As a general rule, you should not draw more than 1/7th of the capacity of an acetylene tank out in an hour. This is so you don't "boil" the acetone that the acetylene is dissolved in, into the regulator. For example a standard "B" acetylene tank (the small size plumbers use) holds about 35 SCF of gas, so you should not use it at a rate of more than 5 SCF per hour. If you look at a good welding text like Welder's Handbook by Finch there will be charts showing gas consumption per hour for different tip sizes. If you are always welding thick stuff and using large tips, or if you want to use a rosebud tip to heat stuff, you will want a bigger set of tanks. If you are cutting a lot, you should "upsize" your oxygen tank one size over the usual match for your acetylene cylinder. I did occasional welding and cutting for years with a B size acetylene and a 80 CF oxygen tank and only filled them once or twice a year, YMMV. Those tank sizes are an easy lift into a truck for one person. But I still usually pay the $10 for delivery when I need a tank refilled, it's easier to let them worry about all the safe transport laws for gas cylinders. And you should never transport welding gas in a car or van. Once you find a gas vendor, do your best to stick with them. Vendors who swap cylinders should eat the "hydro" fees on tanks you got from them, but won't on another vendors tanks. Switching vendors to save a few bucks on a refill or because you really need gas now can cost extra $ you hadn't planned on.

 

[Phil Dwyer]

When you check in with your supplier, ask them which sizes they swap out. Airpro/Gaspro here in Honolulu only swap their little and their larger tanks out. The in-between size (that I have) they do not. So I have to leave them to be filled and come back some days later to pick them up. That can be a bit humbug.

On another note, on a couple of occasions I had to have old oxygen tanks I bought that were out of date hydro-tested to be re-certified they were safe to be refilled. Both times they came back alright to be used, but it took weeks to get turned around.

I'm getting more selective using my O/A setups these days, as it is costing more and more each time to get the tanks refilled. Now-a-days if I can punch the hole with a drill or cut with an abrasive cutoff saw, band saw, angle grinder or sawzall I will to save on the gas costs.

 

[Salem Straub]

Wow, good stuff there guys. I thought I'd mention one thing further: it would be a good idea to take a course including gas welding/cutting, or at least thoroughly read the little booklet included with the Victor set.

There are some smaller details that potentially can get you in trouble. Such as, don't run your acetylene above 15 psi at any time, use proper procedures such as bleeding your acetylene hose first on shutdown to avoid the risk of over pressurizing it with oxygen, and never using oil or any sealant on oxygen fittings. The acetylene should only ever be opened 1 turn max, and the oxy cylinder should always be opened all the way, as it's a backseating valve and can leak if not opened all the way. Don't use your acetylene cylinder for at least 1/2 hour after transporting horizontal, the acetone needs to fully settle to the bottom first. Get flashback arrestors if your kit does not include them.

Not trying to scold or imply an lack of confidence, just saying that following these rules and others is important, and could even save your life or health. I've seen some self-taught or negligent workers use a torch in ways that made me shudder.