Frustrating DMT Extra Fine Experience

V

Vivi

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So for a while now I've been using a DMT Fine stone for my edges. Can usually get hair whittling edges in little time right off the stone, always at least hair popping sharp.

Today I sat down with a new Extra Fine credit card sharpener I received in a trade. Thinned out the edge on an extra course, set the edge up on the fine (Shaved at this point), then used the extra fine and afterwards the knife had absolutely no hair scraping ability, much less shaving sharpness or hair whittling sharpness.

With the ease of obtaining high levels of sharpness off the fine, I thought the extra fine would be even easier to use. So far it's only been frustrating me. I can't figure out my results. I've cleaned the stone, I use the exact same technique and angle as I do on the fine, including finishing with extremely light strokes and making sure there is no burr detectable by my fingers etc. Can anyone think of something I might be doing wrong that would be doing this? I'm entirely confused.
 
Try shaving in the opposite direction and flipping the knife over. Some burrs are nearly undetectable and can cause disappointing results. What steel is it?
 
Vivi,

Would you mind outlining the steps that you take during the sharpening?

What method do you use for ensuring that you are replicating the same angle?

(I ask these questions for two reasons. One, I'm interested in picking up some ideas from your methods. Second, I have an idea but want to see if it makes sense in light of what info you may care to share.)

Thanks in advance.
 
I recall reading on the DMT website something about the diamond stones having a rough surface at first, which disappears with use. Something like that. Maybe that has some bearing on your issue - who knows. I doubt it, but something to consider. I have recently become a convert to the DMT lineup, as I am a pathetic sharpener but am getting some good results with DMT, though I still have a lot to learn.
 
Every time you get a new stone there is a break in peroid, not only for the stone but the sharpener also (that means you). Give it some time to break in, the stone should feel very smooth like it doesn't have anything on it, though from the begining it should make your blades sharper than the DMT fine stone. The x-fine also needs to be cleaned more often.
 
65535 said:
Try shaving in the opposite direction and flipping the knife over. Some burrs are nearly undetectable and can cause disappointing results. What steel is it?
Click to expand...

I checked for a burr with my fingernail and didn't find one. I've tried 3 different knives now. A Leatherman in some 400 series steel, a mystery stainless kitchen knife and my 51200 Mule. All 3 readily shave off the fine, then lose all shaving ability once I use the Extra Fine.

Blues said:
Vivi,

Would you mind outlining the steps that you take during the sharpening?

What method do you use for ensuring that you are replicating the same angle?

(I ask these questions for two reasons. One, I'm interested in picking up some ideas from your methods. Second, I have an idea but want to see if it makes sense in light of what info you may care to share.)

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

Sure thing.

1. Reduce the edge angle and even the bevel on a DMT Extra Course stone.
2. Use edge leading strokes on a DMT fine at a slightly more obtuse angle to form a microbevel. This is where I usually stop sharpening, or just strop after this step. My knives generally pop hairs after this step.
3. Now I'm trying to finish the process with a 3 inch DMT Extra Fine stone.

As far as keeping the same angle, it's all freehand. I judge by feel whether I'm hitting the right part of the edge, and stop every couple of strokes for visual confirmation.

powernoodle said:
I recall reading on the DMT website something about the diamond stones having a rough surface at first, which disappears with use. Something like that.
Click to expand...

It's been used before so I know that's not the problem. In general DMT products are my favorite.

------

This is weird because when I run my fingernail along the edge I can feel it's smoother, but the edge has no sharpness. It makes no sense to me. I even tried something I do when I'm getting frustrated with a knife and just want to get it sharp an be done with it. That's using a purposely too obtuse of an angle for the microbevel, just to hit the very edge for sure and get it sharp, while not being concerned about thickening it. I did that and still am getting the same results. Shaving sharp off fine, butter knife dull off extra fine. I'm 100% clueless at this point and I'm about to offer to mail this stone to someone else to see if they get any better results than me.
 
Vivi,

Just out of curiosity, would it be possible to take the edge that you get from the fine, then go to the XF and sharpen at a very slightly shallower angle as if you were just trying to creep up on the edge but were just behind it? I'd be curious to hear if you find any difference with just that minute change of angle.
 
I just tried out my Xfine I bought today a 10"duo sharp. It's dulling my fine edge. Though it was a quick and dirty test and my right hand (half of m sharpening) are currently still not 100%.
 
Blues said:
Vivi,

Just out of curiosity, would it be possible to take the edge that you get from the fine, then go to the XF and sharpen at a very slightly shallower angle as if you were just trying to creep up on the edge but were just behind it? I'd be curious to hear if you find any difference with just that minute change of angle.
Click to expand...

I suspected this might be happening, so I did what I described towards the end of my last post. Using a more obtuse angle to be 100% sure I'm hitting the edge. Same results. :(
 
Vivi, I was actually thinking that it might be (somehow) instructive to actually go shallower intentionally and stop at what intuitively seemed as if you hadn't yet reached the edge and see if there was any refinement to the edge despite it not seeming (via muscle memory) that you had reached that point. (I hope that makes some kind of sense.)
 
Okay my xfine gets me a really keen edge. My advice is try going a little steeper, also just keep sharpening DMT's get better when broken in.
 
Do you have a magnifier? All us sharpening nuts would love a binocular microscope (I forget the proper name), but a 10x loupe will do.
 
I have never had a problem with the DMT EF hone. But just before reading this I was testing (testing sounds better than playing with) my new DMT EEF (tan) 4" on a Victorinox Soldier and managed to do the same thing. I was slicing paper effortlessly after using the EF, but after using the EEF it was skipping and hanging up. It would still take off arm hair, but not like before. A few swipes (actually about 20) per side on the fine rods of the Spyderco Sharpmaker got it good and sharp again. Then I tried 21 passes per side on the EEF again. This time I got a slight improvement in the paper slicing and hair shaving ability of the blade. Did about 20 more passes on the EEF with what I would consider no effect, but no dulling occurred. I too am clueless as to what caused the dulling the first time.
 
DMT Extra Fine working just perfect for me for more then a year - most used DMT, because usually to resharpen I need only this one and of course Green Rouge.

It always works, never had any problems - so reliable, I did not notice.

However I have main battle stone 11.5" and it is like professional tool I guess.

Thanks, Vassili.

P.S. I have also EEF, it does not dull my edge, but I see no difference between it and EF, so I have no use for it.
 
The little DMT credit card thingy might have raised metal around the edge. Mine did, maybe yours does?

The diamonds are working, everything may seem right, but the if the metal is raised on the edge up and over the diamonds it is dulling the edge.

Take a file at about 45, and knock the whole outer edge (all the way around it) of the card, see if that will help. :cool:
 
are you putting the card on a hard back surface? like..not a mousepad of something but desk instead? i know the feeling though, took me forever to get used to a 6k stone and not dull my knives. id say just keep practicing till you learn what you need to o to get this stone to work. :confused:
 
I've had problems with my DMT EF also. I have the 6 incher, that you put the little rubber feet on. I couldn't tell which side had the diamonds! Mine scratches badly, and I've tried the other side with similar results. It doesn't seem to help my knives, I'm seriously wondering if I have a bad stone. It seems softer than my knives.

I'm going to try Blue's suggestion of going shallow and see how that works.
 
Diamond stones should be reserved for extra-hard/tough steels that require them.
A fine India stone, possibly followed by an Arkansas stone is usually all you need.
Bill
 
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