Full (shapton) kit from coarse to mirror?

L

Lodd

Joined
Jan 23, 2015
Messages
629
Hey guys,

Lately I've been looking at getting a new kit for free-hand sharpening. I've been looking at shapton glass stones since they seem to be the best kind of stones for getting mirror edges and they would be an upgrade from what I currently have (Edge Pro Apex, DMT, Spyderco, Belgian Blue and a strop). However there are so many options so I'm having a hard time getting it right. It's also all very expensive. Investing in the right tool is something I'm willing to do, but investing in the wrong tool is something I'd rather avoid.

My use case: I'd say about 80-90% of my knives are (near)stainless, as in D2 or more stain resistant. About 30-50% of those could be considered 'super steels' like S30V, S35VN and m390/20cv. Going forward I'd also like to be able to keep up with newer steels like S45VN and Magnacut and whatever else we may invent.

Now, I'd like to have a full set, so forget about all the stuff I already have for a moment. Imagine this was going to be my only sharpening set and I needed to take the worst possible edge to enough of a mirror polish that my gf could use it to apply her makeup. What should I get?
 
The seven series shaptons are reasonably priced. The 30k which I bought more for curiosity (no buyers remorse btw)cuts s110v and 20cv. The 7 series are not full size. For example the full size (8"x3" or so) 30k is $360 or so. The seven series is $109 but it's about 6.5" x 1.5" or so. I was surprised that the stone cut the steel as easily. The surface is white and the swarf tells you easily what's going on. They got a full set available for.knives I think. Go.check on their website for more details. What I really like about them is they're always fresh. Dmts and atoma etc wear down after a while. They still work. But sharpening on a fresh surface is only one lapping away. Do you need them? Probably not. But if you feel like dropping some coin? Don't let me.stop you. Lol.
 
I’m slowly purchasing Shapton Glass stones also. My first purchase was an 8 k as I did not have any stones over 6k. I liked it so much upon first use I immediately ordered the 16k. I’m planning on ordering a 4K and eventually the 30 if funds allow.

My intention is to use the Glass stones for straight razors. For my kitchen knives super high grit polish is kinda pointless. My “fancy” kitchen knives are either Chinese cleavers or German steel.
 
Lodd said:
forget about all the stuff I already have for a moment. Imagine this was going to be my only sharpening set and I needed to take the worst possible edge to enough of a mirror polish that my gf could use it to apply her makeup. What should I get?
Click to expand...

KME + Venev stones + Gunny juice + whatever else they use to get those flawless mirror edges

It’s a time consuming process requiring many abrasives to get the mirror you want
 
Ryansknives said:
I’m slowly purchasing Shapton Glass stones also. My first purchase was an 8 k as I did not have any stones over 6k. I liked it so much upon first use I immediately ordered the 16k. I’m planning on ordering a 4K and eventually the 30 if funds allow.

My intention is to use the Glass stones for straight razors. For my kitchen knives super high grit polish is kinda pointless. My “fancy” kitchen knives are either Chinese cleavers or German steel.
Click to expand...
You can shave off the 30K -- I did that recently, and it went very well. I like to use the 1K for bevel setting.

I got my hands on the HC stones recently, and they do a great job on carbon steel razors. So a common pre-JNat sequence for me is 1K to 2K to 4K or 6K HC then JNat.
 
Thanks for the replies so far, guys.

Allright, so based on my research, here's where I'm at:

A.

Many people use an Atoma 140 as a flattening stone since it's a lot cheaper at €90 then the Shapton lapping stone at a whopping € 280,-. Here's where it gets complicated. The store I'm looking at says the Atoma 140 is only suitable up to 5000 grit stones, and I want to get stones that go higher. I see that since a short while Shapton also has a small lapping disc available, priced at a much more reasonable €16,50 , but I don't know how good it is. What option should I go with for lapping?

B.

I've read that the Shapton glass stones come in multiple variations, two of which are 'HC' for High Carbon steels and 'HR' for harder and/or stainless steels. Based on my use cases I think I need the 'HR' variant. Then there is also the 'Shapton Glass Stone Seven' which has neither indicator and also doesn't list itself in grit, but in micron, so I'm really not sure how they compare to the HR-series. Should I go for the 'HR' stones or the 'Seven' series?


There's a lot of options, but not everything is available to me now. Below is a list what I have so far:

If I go with the HR-series:

1. Atoma 140 lapping stone and/or Shapton lapping disc;
2. Shapton glass stone HR set with holder and three stones: 500, 2000 and 16000 grit;
3. Shapton glass stone HR 220 grit
4. Shapton glass stone HR 1000 grit
5. Shapton glass stone HR 4000 grit
6. Shapton glass stone HR 8000 grit


This would make the grit progression when sharpening from the worlds worst edge to mirror polish: 220 - 500 - 1000 - 2000 - 4000 - 8000 - 16000. Would that be a good setup? Did I forget anything? Can I leave anything out?

The above would cost me about € 600,- depending on some small options


If I go with the 'Seven' series, it would be:

1. Shapton glass stone seven set including: Holder, lapping plate and three stones: 25 micron (comparable to 500 grit?), 6.7 micron (Comparable to 2000 grit?) and 0.44 Micron (Comparable to 30.000 grit?);
2. Shapton glass stone seven 11.5 micron (comparable to 1100 grit?)
3. Shapton glass stone seven 3 micron (comparable to 4000 grit?)
4. Shapton glass stone seven 1.20 micron (comparable to 8000 grit?)

Please note: I do not have an option to select a stone between 1.20 micron and 0.44 micron, which seems like big jump.

This would make the progression in micron: 25 - 11.5 - 6.7 - 3 - 1.2 - 0.44. If the grit-comparison the seller states is correct: 500 - 1100 - 2000- 4000 - 8000 - 30.000. Is this a reasonable setup?

Going with the described set in the 'Seven' series would cost me about € 500,- depending on some small options.



How do these sets of stones look to you? Which one is better?
 
Progression is what makes a mirror. If mirror is your goal then you’ll need to add lower micron abrasives that are applied on a strop. I imagine you’ll need to add a 1 micron progression. The mirror guys are going down to .1 micron.

reach out to people that do mirrors before throwing down that cash and effort.

the easy button is to buy kits put together for mirrors
 
Strops as was said. But diamond lapping film would work. It is used for polishing glass after all and most mirrors are.made of glass.
 
Lapping films for sure work, and work well. I just meant strop in general as a backer of some sort. KME’s lapping film kit has a glass backer.

Also not being discussed is the endurance and focus you’ll need to freehand a mirror. Some people are at it for 2-2.5 hours, especially with harder steels. A clamp guided system will let you relax a bit and will ultimately give you a better mirrored finish.
 
Last edited:
I think a.guided system would probably work better for the reasons you mention. Although I have never used one.
 
I know this was mentioned but the glass stone 7 stones are tiny. Even thinking about razors I am not sure what they are good for. I bought the .2 micron or whatever because it was 1/3 the price of a full stone. But it is tough to us with knives being so small.
 
For razors? Piece of cake. I have used my choseras on their side at 1" thick to hone some wonky razors. It is always better to have the option of the larger area though. And I would take an 8x3 inch all day long. I think they would serve their purpose for knives. Any abused or seriously rounded off edges I would use a full size dmt to straighten the issues out. Or even a belt grinder for that matter. But I think anyone can get used to the size easily.
 
Thanks for the additional input.

I'm not looking for a guided system at the moment, because I am quite happy with my Edge Pro set for that purpose. I find it works well for most EDC blades and small to medium fixed blades. However, I do own some knives that I'd just rather freehand. Also, it's a nice zen thing to do.

I don't mind about the endurance. It wouldn't be the first rainy day I've spent hours sharpening.

I wouldn't mind switching to a strop after the stones, but then the question becomes: When do you switch to a strop and how do you get to that point (progression)?

Good to know about the 'seven' series' small size. That is useful info.

Did the progressions I posted seem logical to you guys? Can I forego certain grits or should I add more steps in between?
 
Last edited:
A mirror is simply light reflecting off a perfect surface. The progression just removes the scratch pattern from the prior stone. The less progression you have the more time you spend removing a scratch pattern. The more you have the less time you spend. But ultimately for a true mirror that reflects the same color rendition you must have as perfect of a surface as possible, hence why mirror folks go down to .1 micron.

Stone types will have their unique scratch pattern. That’s why I advised reaching out to someone that does mirrors using Shapton glass.
1k grit isn’t equal to 1k grit across the board.
Shapton is a hard stone.
 
You switch to a stop when you have gone as far with your stones as they and the steel allow, which varies. With Shapton Glass I would say 8k for most of your steels, but I would also say most of your steels would be better sharpened with diamond. It is quite challenging to get a mirror polish on the bevel without convexing the apex too much, I am still figuring this out even with my guided sharpener. I have an Edge-On-Up tester that is real good at telling me when I am failing.
 
From unsharpend (had to reprofile) to mirror. Used 320-1000-5000-8000-12000-.44 micron. Used Shapton Kuromaku except for .44 micron, which is glass stone 7.

From 320 to .44 took about 25 minutes in between cooking and eating.

fXshL4u.jpg

iQLYNWK.jpg
PQw68io.jpg
bfKzsBm.jpg

5SAEFCn.jpg

Zq2t5B2.jpg
4B7IXx6.jpg

yuKBZ6J.jpg
 
Thanks. The grit progression coupled with the pics of the results is very useful. I can't exactly get all of the same stones as you do, but your setup is a lot cheaper than what I had in mind. Do you think it will be ok if I go from 8000 grit to 16000 grit? Or would that be too big of a jump?
 
Lodd said:
Thanks. The grit progression coupled with the pics of the results is very useful. I can't exactly get all of the same stones as you do, but your setup is a lot cheaper than what I had in mind. Do you think it will be ok if I go from 8000 grit to 16000 grit? Or would that be too big of a jump?
Click to expand...
I wouldn’t think that would be too big of a jump but can’t say for sure. Although, jumping from 12k to about 30k (.44 micron) is fine, so that should be too.
I would think 320 (or 120)-1500 (or 1k, 2k)-5000-12000-16000 would be fine too.

The 2k is also an excellent edge for kitchen knives and feels much nicer than the other stones. I have heard similar about the 1500 but don’t have one.
 
As mentioned above… anything more than 8K Shapton isn’t going to show much results on a knife. Over 8K would be for a straight razor. I think after 8K you’ll get much faster and better results going to decreasing values of emulsions or pastes on strops.
 
Dominick Maone said:
I wouldn’t think that would be too big of a jump but can’t say for sure. Although, jumping from 12k to about 30k (.44 micron) is fine, so that should be too.
I would think 320 (or 120)-1500 (or 1k, 2k)-5000-12000-16000 would be fine too.

The 2k is also an excellent edge for kitchen knives and feels much nicer than the other stones. I have heard similar about the 1500 but don’t have one.
Click to expand...
Thanks, that is very useful to know.

SpaceGhost88 said:
As mentioned above… anything more than 8K Shapton isn’t going to show much results on a knife. Over 8K would be for a straight razor. I think after 8K you’ll get much faster and better results going to decreasing values of emulsions or pastes on strops.
Click to expand...

With respect, but I do discern a difference between 8K and 12K in the pictures above, albeit a slight one.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top