Full sized heads on short handles

FLINT77 · Jan 9, 2020

Hey guys,

what experience do you have with full sized heads on shorter handles? I'm thinking 3 - 3.5lb head on a short handle as a handy axe to accompany the chain saw. I think this is usually called a fallers axe. How short can you go and still be useful? is 20" too short? I'd love to see pictures of any similarly configured axes that you have. To clarify, I'm meaning less than 28", really probably talking about 20-24"
Thanks!

npace · Jan 9, 2020

FLINT77 said:
Hey guys,

what experience do you have with full sized heads on shorter handles? I'm thinking 3 - 3.5lb head on a short handle as a handy axe to accompany the chain saw. I think this is usually called a fallers axe. How short can you go and still be useful? is 20" too short? I'd love to see pictures of any similarly configured axes that you have. To clarify, I'm meaning less than 28", really probably talking about 20-24"
Thanks!

I have a 3.5 on a 24” handle and I use it more than any other axe I own unless I’m splitting. I love it. I’ll post a pic of it this evening after work.

A17 · Jan 9, 2020

Link sells 28 inch straight handles for a full size “miner’s axe”, a size that works pretty well for me.

VintageAxe · Jan 9, 2020

Some crews I worked on had shortened falling axes, probably around 20 or even 18 inches. Definitely wasn't for me, the balance starts to suck when you go below 28. For me. Depending on what you're cutting you may miss the extra force you get from a longer handle. Or you may be stronger than me and it won't matter too

for me 30-32 is the sweet spot. But try it out if you're curious, maybe 20 will be your hot ticket.

muleman77 · Jan 9, 2020

26"or 28" straight handle is my preference. It's short enough to pack and use in tighter spots, but long enough to hit hard, chop with, and reach if the grounds steep. Which it almost always is here.

I have shorter, and do not care for it. It might be fine if you work in smaller trees though.

I have a couple Plumbs , 4 pound Dayton and 5 pound rafting, on the 25" originals. Actually about 24 1/2". Not near as handy to me and I never use 'em.

The same heads on 26"or 8", which I have several of, are favorites.

garry3 · Jan 9, 2020

I have a Council that I think is a 4 1/2 lb on a 19". Maybe geared towards fallers at one time. I haven't found a use for it.

Square_peg · Jan 9, 2020

VintageAxe said:
Some crews I worked on had shortened falling axes, probably around 20 or even 18 inches. Definitely wasn't for me, the balance starts to suck when you go below 28. For me. Depending on what you're cutting you may miss the extra force you get from a longer handle. Or you may be stronger than me and it won't matter too for me 30-32 is the sweet spot. But try it out if you're curious, maybe 20 will be your hot ticket.

This is more my liking, 32"-ish. Short handles make an axe feel clunky. Not enough head speed for efficient chopping. I'd take a boys axe head on a 32" over a 3.5 lb. head on a 24" any day. I could see using a short handle in a mine where space was limited and hammering was half the duty. But if you're chopping anything you're better off with at least a 28" haft.

20" to 24" is the shin zone. No thanks.

npace · Jan 9, 2020

I apologize I thought it was 24” but it’s 26”. It is too short to split firewood like peg said it is in the shin zone. Handy size for a lot of things though. Would you guys say this is a Dayton or Connecticut? Also I have no clue of the maker stamp.

FLINT77 · Jan 10, 2020

Thanks guys! good to know that 20-24" may not be that useful for a full sized axe. That's why I asked.

npace said:
Would you guys say this is a Dayton or Connecticut? Also I have no clue of the maker stamp.

Pictures can be super deceiving - a head can look totally different depending on the angle. Can you list the weight and dimensions? poll,bit, and total length. I usually think of the length to width ratio of a connecticut pattern being close to .7, whereas a dayton or michigan is usually less than that. For a 3-3.5lb axe a connie will be something like ≤7" long x ≥5" wide at the bit, whereas a dayton or michigan will be more like 7.5" long x ≤4.75" wide.

muleman77 · Jan 12, 2020

Some pictures to go with my thoughts on this......its a type of axe I use a lot.

Heres a couple original plumbs at just under 25". Too short to be ideal in my opinion.

This is the same head on a 28", next to the 25". Way more useful, probly safer too.

A couple of 28" 4 lb Daytons. Atco and Council

I've got a half dozen about like this. 3 1/2 lb Council Jersey on 26" and 28".

And a few at work

It all depends on your needs, but theres no substitute for mass when driving. A longer handle gets some speed but once those wedges are tight you need mass. I wouldn't bother carrying one under 3.5 lb.

I've wished I had 6lbs lots, but never wished I just had 3.

Square_peg · Jan 13, 2020

I think it depends largely on what you're doing with the axe. Short handles and mass might be great for driving wedges but they're not so handy for bucking, limbing or smaller tasks.

muleman77 · Jan 13, 2020

For sure, but its key in a fallers axe.

Edit...That 3 1/2 council Jersey on a 28" is a great chopper and big enough most of the time. On a long walk or if I think some chopping will come in its first choice.

Old Axeman · Jan 13, 2020

For driving wedges I liked a 4lb with a 28" haft or a 2 1/2 lb with a 24" haft. I would have preferred to only carry the 4lb, but a lot of times in a fallers work the cutting lanes were a long, hard walk from the crummy (truck). You had to carry the saw, gas and bar oil for a 10-12 hr day, saw tools, wedges, axe, sometimes a peavy, water and food. Those days I made do with the 2 1/2 lb.

muleman77 · Jan 13, 2020

West coast yarder units......straight up and down.

Shudder.....

I put this somewhere before, but heres a few ways to get a full size axe and fuel around with you I use. Pick the right setup for how far and what you need.

Like O Old Axeman I've put many miles on with this stuff on my back. I see what the gear was then and it's a feat to get it around, not to mention do the jobs that were needed. Amazing!

Axe weight is minimal compared to what you can save in fuel and oil, and the right saw. My 461 with 36" bar cuts fast, and will use about 60% of what the 660 does with the same, and it's a lot lighter saw too. Several pounds off the load all told.

thunderstick · Jan 13, 2020

As has been stated--It depends on what you will use it for. Hobbyists will often set up an axe for what they think is cool but then they use it for something different. They may set up a faller's axe that is ideal for large trees but then they seldom fell trees and never fell large trees where the heavy head and longer handles are ideal. I think you got good advice from folks with more experience than I for felling larger trees and for limbing trees.

However if you are going to occasionally fell small to medium size trees with a 20" bar I can't imagine needing a 4# head on a 28" handle unless you plan to limb the tree by hand. But that is what you typically use a 20" saw for. You won't need something that big to drive wedges on small to medium trees. A 3-3.5# head on a 24-26" might be more ideal for weight, balance, and portability.

I have primarily two uses for a 3.5# to 4# head on a 20" handle:
1. It is my first choice for a kindling axe for many reasons that I've listed on other threads--basically the head is heavy enough to easily do the work and the short handle allows single hand usage when splitting by dropping the wood with the axe on top of it. The full size head also keeps the axe from going out the side of the piece as it goes down through it.
2. An axe that can be carried in a faller's pouch for driving wedges on small to medium size trees.

FLINT77 · Jan 13, 2020

Thanks guys! This is all very helpful!

thunderstick · Jan 14, 2020

muleman77 said:
West coast yarder units......straight up and down.

Shudder.....

I put this somewhere before, but heres a few ways to get a full size axe and fuel around with you I use. Pick the right setup for how far and what you need.

Like O Old Axeman I've put many miles on with this stuff on my back. I see what the gear was then and it's a feat to get it around, not to mention do the jobs that were needed. Amazing!

Axe weight is minimal compared to what you can save in fuel and oil, and the right saw. My 461 with 36" bar cuts fast, and will use about 60% of what the 660 does with the same, and it's a lot lighter saw too. Several pounds off the load all told.

These are some nice rig ups.