Full Tang Double Guard Technique?

F

Frank Eaton

Joined
Sep 10, 2004
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I am making a hunting knife with a double guard and full tang. Is there a better technique or is the only way to slot the guard and slide it over the handle. This means that your handle has to be narrow enough to allow the guard to pass. Does anyone know of a good tutorial on this? I am not getting anything on search. Thanks Frank.
 
Another item of concern is handle thickness, thin the tang down to a little less than the thickness of the blade where the guard will sit or you will end up with a sloppy fit.
 
One of the ways to do it is to make it so it slides over the blade instead of the handle. A lot of the time you won't have to worry about the wideness of the butt of the knife make the blade smaller in width and have a double recess for the guard to slide up against and then pin to hold in place. Just one way to do it. Mike
 
You could do a front-mounted guard and pin/ solder it on. I guess that's best if the blade is fairly slim. The other option would be a frame handle or whatever you call it. I think Bruce Evans has a tutorial on his site.

Get it all ready for those giraffe bone scales!
 
yes a framed handle is one way..

this is one I've done framed and as you can see you could sub hlit it also
I started doing them I think with some of Bruces info too :)
gray102-2.JPG
 
Great Ideas, I guess I will go at it from the handle side. I have never done one like this, so I just got to get into it and figure it out.

Whit this is going to get some if that rare Ironwood we got laying around out here.

Thanks for the replies.
 
On at least one Scagel knife in a collection (think owned by Dr Lucie?), the brass guard was cut/split on one side and opened to allow it to slide over the tang...then it was closed and brazed or soldered..the join is amost invisible.
 
I don't know what you think of bolsters but you could design the guard right into it. Short of a 2 dimensional integral.
Mike :cool:
 
I am planning something new on a tiny little fixed blade I am making. It is a slim and thing fixed blade but I want some kind of guard. The scales will be about 1/8" thick, but I am using 1/4" nickel silver for the front bolsters. I am going to shap einto them a bolster-intergral front guard, and then taper them back to the scales. I am worried about how to peen them since the front edge will be higher and grinding post-peen will most likely show the pin edges. I may, given the type of knife, hold the bolsters with 1/8" mosaic pins relying on jb weld and epoxy divits and holes to hold them on.
 
I approach it in a different manner than most, it seems. I slide the guard over the butt end.

I just leave an extension of steel dropping down from the ricasso/handle junction to fill the extra gap. Bah. This is hard to explain. Hmm... Think of knives that have no real guard, but have an extension from the tang/blade itself that serves as a small guard. You often see these types of knives with just a wrapped or simple slab handle. That's about what your knife would look like before you slip the guard over the butt and fix it in place with pins or solder or whatever.

If you look carefully at the third pic in this thread, you can see this bit of steel extending down from the ricasso at the front of the guard. (I didn't clean up the joint very well since this is a beater.)
 
the possum said:
I approach it in a different manner than most, it seems. I slide the guard over the butt end.

I just leave an extension of steel dropping down from the ricasso/handle junction to fill the extra gap. Bah. This is hard to explain. Hmm... Think of knives that have no real guard, but have an extension from the tang/blade itself that serves as a small guard. You often see these types of knives with just a wrapped or simple slab handle. That's about what your knife would look like before you slip the guard over the butt and fix it in place with pins or solder or whatever.

If you look carefully at the third pic in this thread, you can see this bit of steel extending down from the ricasso at the front of the guard. (I didn't clean up the joint very well since this is a beater.)
Click to expand...

Not really different, that is a fairly common way, and just about the way I mentioned
if you use the filling jig you are basically doing the same thing but just doing it on four sides..the trouble is, if you are doing SAY a Bowie that has a bigger butt width then you have ricasso aria to work with.. then a framed handle is one of the fixes..or a two piece or bolsters or, or or :)
 
I have a solution although Ive never done it I know it will work: Be sure to leave the tang annealed and install the guard from the butt end, next saw a straight line on the tang from the butt to the rear of the guard then simply cut a metal wedge and drive it into the saw cut therefore spreading the tang apart. Solder, glue or weld the wedge in place and attach the scales as usual.

It may take a bit of experimenting but hey what else do you have to do, watch TV?
 
Bruce Bump said:
I have a solution although Ive never done it I know it will work: Be sure to leave the tang annealed and install the guard from the butt end, next saw a straight line on the tang from the butt to the rear of the guard then simply cut a metal wedge and drive it into the saw cut therefore spreading the tang apart. Solder, glue or weld the wedge in place and attach the scales as usual.

It may take a bit of experimenting but hey what else do you have to do, watch TV?
Click to expand...
cool
I guess you could also skeletonize it and split the end by taking out a section
then squeeze it together, put the guard on and then open it back up..adding the section back in
but I'm thinking I might get some warping going on..
 
If the tang is annealed the warping can be pressed and tweeked back in line. There are endless varieties of designs if You fill the inside. The wedge shape is just the simplest. I just amaze myself sometimes!
 
That sounds like a very good idea. Maybe 2 or 3 small slits in the tang would get the expansion you want and not warp? I just got the guard fitted (over the tang technique) but of course had to make the butt more narrow than I wanted...Oh well. Frank
 
Dan Gray said:
Not really different, that is a fairly common way, and just about the way I mentioned
if you use the filling jig you are basically doing the same thing but just doing it on four sides..the trouble is, if you are doing SAY a Bowie that has a bigger butt width then you have ricasso aria to work with.. then a framed handle is one of the fixes..or a two piece or bolsters or, or or :)
Click to expand...

Oh. I guess I misunderstood you then... I thought you were talking about a framed handle.
Yeah, I've seen this method before, but I didn't think anyone had mentioned it yet.

I do this specifically on blades where the butt will be wider than the finished ricasso area. Ya just gotta plan it out beforehand. If you've already ground the ricasso too narrow, then other methods can be used.
It just seems like this method would be a LOT less work than making a framed handle, or fitting wedges in the butt, etc. Make the butt as wide as you like, and make the slot in the guard big enough to slip over it. Just make sure to leave enough metal at the ricasso to fill the extra space in the slot, and grind out the excess afterward.
 
actually I mentioned two ways the first with the picture is a framed handle.
and I mentioned a variation of Bruce's way..
a framed handle is actually very easy to do and in some ways
much easier in the fit up on the handle side of the guard, at least the way I do it. easyer can limit us ..
we can make things complicated also, :) .
 
Aaaah. Now I gotcha. This is the construction style you were talking about when you mentioned a "sub hilt" type design.

I read your post like ten times, and the whole time I thought you were talking about adding an actual sub hilt behind the first finger with a framed handle.

Possums are not known for their mental prowess. :)
 
the possum said:
Aaaah. Now I gotcha. This is the construction style you were talking about when you mentioned a "sub hilt" type design.

I read your post like ten times, and the whole time I thought you were talking about adding an actual sub hilt behind the first finger with a framed handle.

Possums are not known for their mental prowess. :)
Click to expand...

I was and you could:D
what I said was
you could sub hilt it also
the brass piece behind the leather and thin brass spacers can be anything you want..a sub-hilt,part of a finger groove,a fancy filed piece, so on..
that part has a rectangle hole in it, it's not a slit..as is the same with the front gaurd,,
the frame is behind all that, the rest is just a hidden tang blade..the framed part could very well have been a stag crown as well as not.. :)
 
:confused: :confused:
Well, I'm sure you know what you're doing, but I sense we're talking past eachother here somewhere. I'm comfortable with just leaving it at that.
Take care.
-the possum
 
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