Full tang, "folding" fixed blade for skirting fixed blade legality?

G

goodeyesniper

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Aug 31, 2009
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I've had this idea floating around for awhile, can't remember if I had seen a knife like that and forgotten about it or thought of it on my own. Either way I'm sure I'm not the first person to think of it, but I'm curious if these exist at all, they could be straightforward to build.

basically picture your basic neck knife, no handle scales or anything just bare steel. It could be bigger than a neck knife, though. Drill a pivot hole in the same spot as if it was a folding knife, and attach what is basically a handle cover which pivots to cover the blade when not in use, and the handle when in use. Think of a friction folder, but with a full sized tang. Wouldn't this essentially be a non fixed blade according to most laws, yet have the basic ruggedness of a full tang FB?

It might just be a bit gimmicky, and who knows if it would pass scrutiny, but I'd be interested to see what a good maker could do with a design like that. I realize it takes away some of the simpleness of a fixed blade that make them useful, like ease of cleaning. It would also probably be a two handed opener and closer, not real convenient, but possibly of interest to those who really value a fixed blade's strength but can not carry them for whatever reason. I figure a simple detent to keep it "closed", and you could go anywhere from acting like a friction folder while open, or putting some sort of detent ball, or even a manual locking system to keep the handle in place as a fixed blade...

This isn't something I would personally favor, I would just be interested in seeing the mechanics adapted well. I prefer thin fixed blades, and they are about equally as prone to failing in just the same ways as a well built, thin folder, so a fixed blade to me really only has the advantage of ease of cleaning which this idea lacks.
 
It makes no sense to me, it's an oxymoron. A full tang fixed folding knife? :confused:
Also, the bit about skirting fixed blade knife legality will NOT be discussed here, it is against the rules.
 
Yeah, I have the buck version and it sees almost no pocket time. Forget the model name at the moment, whiticer design????I have always considered it a fixed blade and I bet "the man " would too.
 
Okay, I think I've seen that sog before. probably gave me the idea. However it doesn't fully qualify for the way I was thinking, as that has sharp ends on either side, so it's not really pocketable. basically if the saw half was just a normal full tang... Thanks.

RevDevil said:
It makes no sense to me, it's an oxymoron. A full tang fixed folding knife? :confused:
Also, the bit about skirting fixed blade knife legality will NOT be discussed here, it is against the rules.
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huh? sorry if I used the wrong words. It wouldn't be really "skirting" anything, it would simply be something with the theoretical strength of a fixed blade, yet it folds, so it would be legally a folding knife.

if anything, it would be slower to action than an actual sheath knife (which I imagine is the reason for bans in the first place??) so it's a "safer", slower, option...
 
It's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist, and in fact only creates more problems. The Revolver example Esav linked to does make sense, but that's an entirely different animal.

goodeyesniper said:
huh? sorry if I used the wrong words. It wouldn't be really "skirting" anything, it would simply be something with the theoretical strength of a fixed blade, yet it folds, so it would be legally a folding knife.
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Uh, no. A folding cover on a fixed blade doesn't change the fact that it's a fixed blade.
 
You'd be better off just carrying a locked open folder in a sheath. Old biker trick.
 
Fred Perrin did exactly this with a smaller version of his La Griffe knife. I am not able to locate a photo though for some reason. Maybe some else can.
 
goodeyesniper said:
huh? sorry if I used the wrong words. It wouldn't be really "skirting" anything, it would simply be something with the theoretical strength of a fixed blade, yet it folds, so it would be legally a folding knife.
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No, it doesn't fold. If you fold something it becomes substantially shorter. What you have is a knife with an attached sheath. In court a prosecutor would rip the sheath off, stick the knife blade deep into a joint of meat using the "tang" (which he would argue is fully usable as handle) and then generally destroy your life as much as possible, because prosecutors hate people who don't plea bargains.

Otoh, you counld shorten the tang and reduce the width so that you have substantial tang - say as much as a Mora's. So pretty much like a chunkier Svord Peasant:

100_3436.JPG
 
So... basically a straight razor with a longer "flipper?"

Yea, probably ok, but I wouldn't count on any prosecutor agreeing with your interpretation of the law. Nobody want to be the test case.
 
Esav, You are prob right on the name. It has partial serrated blade and a caribiner (sorta) built in to the handle. Came in two sizes if I remember correctly.I will try to get a pic if I can, Im sure someone else remembers more as it wasn't that long ago.
 
I think if you shorten the tang enough that someone won't call it a fixed blade with a folding cover then you will make it weaker overall and not any better than a strong folder.
 
The late legendary knife designer, and my friend, Mr. Blackie Collins invented and patented a knife similar to what Goodeyesniper is talking about I think. This design was done about 20 years ago and it was called the SOS, made by BenchMark.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/438992-Benchmark-SOS

It was a cool design, and was made for many years. Not sure if it's still made now but it had a long life I am pretty certain. It may have been done by other companies later on.

My design, the SOG Revolver series, made by SOG for 10 years now is similar in that it has a pivot point, but it is different like mentioned above because it has 2 blades available on 1 piece of blade steel and neither are ever covered except when in the sheath.

If I may, (mods please remove this if not allowed) I am posting this link for information on the subject, on the pivot/blade action of a similar idea.

http://scottkaplan.com/paulupload/files/Revolver.swf

The cool thing about all these ideas and designs are they all trying to make something different out of an age old idea...........the straight blade knife.

In order to make this work, you would need to add a extra pivot like Blackie did to provide the correct angle to cover blade then swing it to handle.

You could do the same thing with a handle that simply slides from one side to the other and locks on either side. I thought of this idea 25 years ago and found out it had been done many years ago.

SOG (Mr. Spencer Frazer) also came up with a brilliant design before he used my Revolver design, it was called the SOG Duo and the sheath pivoted away from handle and locked voer the blade. It was a unique idea and I am glad I bought one when it came out. It was a cool idea but when Spencer saw my Revolver design he really liked it and the rest is history as they say........:)

SOG duo, pdf, page 18 of 28 or search google for SOG Duo.

http://web.archive.org/web/20030625205936/http://sogknives.com/03SOG-low.pdf

Hello Esav ! :D

Robbie Roberson. :)
 
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This reminded me of the Spyderco Vagabond (http://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=161), a cool concept.

The closest I've seen to a "fixed blade folding knife" is a German hunting knife I inherited from my grandfather. It's basically a large folding knife with swing guard and a blade that's much longer than the handle, so when it's closed a good 3" of blade still protrude from the handle. It's similar to the ones on the lower left of this photo (the pic is from a 2011 BF thread, it belongs to Acourvil).

WeltersbachDisplay800.JPG
 
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