Full Tang Sword Pommel

[David Mary]

I am playing with a design idea. I am not currently equipped to make a conventional threaded pommel, and as much as I like the sword I currently have in progress (which I will finish eventually lol), I'd like to try a shorter handled one as well, but something I can still get two hands on. My thoughts are this design pictured below will enable me to gain the counterbalance benefits of a weighted pommel for one handed use, while still enabling me to put a second hand on the pommel if desired.

I'm thinking to do this in .162 stock thickness (AEB-L!), with distal taper, and a compound handle consisting of 1/4" wood or micarta for the scales (the first four pinholes), and some 3/8" G10 (which is heavier than micarta and wood) at the pommel (the last three pinholes).

Thoughts?



I also wonder if given the pommel design, I could extend the length of the blade by a few inches and still retain good balance....or perhaps I could hollow out the inside of the G10, and insert some metal - even lead? - inside the pommel and accomplish the same thing.... Just brainstorming, purely hobby time. All ideas are welcome.

 

[JoeCitizen]

So just to restate, you going for a hand and a half type sword that has the shape and look of a traditional threaded pommel, but that is in fact full tang?

I like the modern full tang swords and if you are worried about weight on the back end, do you have the means to fashion a steel pommel(decorative or utilitarian) that you could peen or bolt on? It could also add to the overall look when paired with micarta, g10, or wood.

That or you could weld a butt cap to the end of the pommel and then custom fit your scales into that space? Looks like a real cool project and design. I wish you luck!

 

[not2sharp]

It looks like a messer sword to me. The pommel might be oversized, especially if you are adding double edge grinds or fullers.

n2s

 

[David Mary]

So just to restate, you going for a hand and a half type sword that has the shape and look of a traditional threaded pommel, but that is in fact full tang?

Yes.

do you have the means to fashion a steel pommel(decorative or utilitarian) that you could peen or bolt on? or you could weld a butt cap to the end of the pommel and then custom fit your scales into that space?

Frayed knot.

That Looks like a real cool project and design. I wish you luck!

Thanks!

It looks like a messer sword to me. The pommel might be oversized, especially if you are adding double edge grinds or fullers.

Maybe. I can always remove material if I have to.

 

[horseclover]

A pommel should be for fine tuning and not the primary factor for mass distribution. Pommel/butt weight also affects points of rotation/ pivot points.

https://blog.subcaelo.net/ensis/documenting-dynamics-of-swords/

http://www.peterjohnsson.com/the-making-of-a-long-sword/

Gus Trim aka Atrim would say from time to time (before Peter and Vincent's work) that he would feel right about a blade's mass distribution before fine tuning with the pommel and I have a sense that you are well along the same paths. Vincent is the mathematician behind the brains, with Peter the more esoteric philosopher. When you fraken them together, you are seeing sword design getting close to creating gold from lead.

Cheers
GC

 

[David Mary]

Thanks GC, I will definitely watch this after work tonight. Cheers!

 

[David Mary]

horseclover 57:00 and beyond blew me away. And then his discussion at the end of pivot points and nodes... there's a lot to digest there in those few minutes. I knew about something I've seen called the primary node, or point of harmonics, which is the point on the blade which transfers the most energy into the target on a cut with the least amount of vibration. But pivot points give me a lot more to think about. I am starting to see why I might want to start off with thicker stock and have more dramatic tapers, and I can also see why traditional hilt design is so desirable.

Thanks again for the video.

 

[David Mary]

The second part was very interesting!

 

[horseclover]

Yes, all interesting stuff. While not etched in stone for all sword types, one thing we see for hundreds of years on some types is a very concave distal taper. Thicknesses reducing as much as a third, or more, by the distance between grip/guard and the pob. One of the crazy seemingly constants amongst many swords is that the center of mass is often a third of the way from the butt to up the blade.

When thinking about mass distribution, there are a lot of subjective choices as well. Do you want a dedicatedforward weighted chopper, or something a bit more neutral, while leaving a bit of understeer. A hilt weighted balance close to or inside the grip loses point control in oversteer. Understeer can be easier to let the point turn in to the target. Too much pommel swings the mass and needs brakes.

Vincent explains it better with his math (first link).

Cheers
GC