so on a hunting knife my mind looks at steel and says that full tang is no doubt has to be stronger. but how much so versus a hidden tang? reason i ask is before i have done stock removal with close to spec size materials and was easy to do full tang. now i have been playing with forging and am asking my self if hidden tang isnt easier way to go and less costly due to amount of metals used. so chime in on your thoughts and experiences. thanks.
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full tang versus hidden tang, strength
- Thread starter Dakota 11
- Start date
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2003
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- 1,183
Last year getting ready for Blade I was putting the finishing touches on a hidden tang knife when I pushed a little too hard on the tip and snapped the handle in half. Sheath was done, edge was on everything, was I pissed!!! The only reason the knife didn't go flying across the room was that I couldn't find a good target on the other side and cooler heads prevailed.
So what did I learn? Never I repeat NEVER clamp a hidden tang knife back of the tang!
So in my opinion unless the tang goes all the way through to the butt of the handle it is weaker in terms of strength in the handle. Now what it gives up for here it makes up for in decreased weight.
I still make both and will continue to do so but if the knife doesn't seem to be solely for hiking or hunting I tend to steer the person to a full tang. There is no issue in the blade itself but definitely possible problems in the handle. The average hunter will never have a problem and most likely will be happier with the lighter weight hidden tang knife. The survivalist/Soldier most likely won't be.
These are of course just my opinions others may differ.
Sean
So what did I learn? Never I repeat NEVER clamp a hidden tang knife back of the tang!
So in my opinion unless the tang goes all the way through to the butt of the handle it is weaker in terms of strength in the handle. Now what it gives up for here it makes up for in decreased weight.
I still make both and will continue to do so but if the knife doesn't seem to be solely for hiking or hunting I tend to steer the person to a full tang. There is no issue in the blade itself but definitely possible problems in the handle. The average hunter will never have a problem and most likely will be happier with the lighter weight hidden tang knife. The survivalist/Soldier most likely won't be.
These are of course just my opinions others may differ.
Sean
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2006
- Messages
- 1,097
Lots of variables! All my forged blades are narrow tang thru the handle. Leave the tang as wide as possible and radius the corners. I only cut about 1/16"-3/32 shoulder on each side[top & bottom] then taper. Guards are all soldered and handle is filled with epoxy. I've abused some of these quite seriously without failure at tang junction.
Edited to add: This refers to full length tang with butcap. I've never made hidden short tang styles.
Edited to add: This refers to full length tang with butcap. I've never made hidden short tang styles.
thanks for replys so far, little less weight is nice as i am a backpack high elevation elk hunter. have been concerned with murphy (u know his law) popping up at worst time, anywere from 5-8 miles into a wilderness. Yeah i will be brazing the brass guards on have been doing much pratice doing that before i attempt to do a forge blade . i could probably get buy with modifyed hidden tang still strong but littler lighter. also do u guys put in pins or pien pins in ? thanks
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2001
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- 1,917
Do a search. This has been done before.
I will only say/add that for thousands of years, in both East and West, full length swords made for and used in battle held up just fine with hidden tangs.
But if you want to test for yourself, try the following:
Make a hidden tang knife, properly proportioned and PROPERLY heat treated. Clamp the first third of it in a vise. Put on some gloves and try to break it with your bare hands. If you cannot, well.... Next, use a pipe or some other attachment to break it. See where it breaks.
John
I will only say/add that for thousands of years, in both East and West, full length swords made for and used in battle held up just fine with hidden tangs.
But if you want to test for yourself, try the following:
Make a hidden tang knife, properly proportioned and PROPERLY heat treated. Clamp the first third of it in a vise. Put on some gloves and try to break it with your bare hands. If you cannot, well.... Next, use a pipe or some other attachment to break it. See where it breaks.
John
Alan Molstad
Banned
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2006
- Messages
- 422
It all is up to the design and what steps the maker of the knife takes.
The main thing I think all knives should be is "sharp and strong"
But being sharp and strong is a dance between two sometimes totally different ends .
Sean, The fact is that a knife should not break.
I have owned pocket knives in the past that snapped on me at the worst of times...In the dead of winter, while working UNDER my car....
I think we all should design things that we can trust in such situations ...
The handle of a full-tang knife has many things going for it.
The handle of a sub-tang knife is a design that is based on different needs.
Right now I forge my steel from Ball Bearings, and use blocks of Micarta for a sub-tang knife.
I made a few full-tang blades, but I just didnt like the look of them, and I didnt like the way they were to make.
I never liked the look of the tang along the handle.
Right now Im still listening to ideas from the other makers on the forum about how to make stronger knives that will not break in the field.
This is my first 90bend test - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vFAoODVd4o
Im still looking for new ideas...
The main thing I think all knives should be is "sharp and strong"
But being sharp and strong is a dance between two sometimes totally different ends .
Sean, The fact is that a knife should not break.
I have owned pocket knives in the past that snapped on me at the worst of times...In the dead of winter, while working UNDER my car....
I think we all should design things that we can trust in such situations ...
The handle of a full-tang knife has many things going for it.
The handle of a sub-tang knife is a design that is based on different needs.
Right now I forge my steel from Ball Bearings, and use blocks of Micarta for a sub-tang knife.
I made a few full-tang blades, but I just didnt like the look of them, and I didnt like the way they were to make.
I never liked the look of the tang along the handle.
Right now Im still listening to ideas from the other makers on the forum about how to make stronger knives that will not break in the field.
This is my first 90bend test - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vFAoODVd4o
Im still looking for new ideas...