fuller/blood groove question

M

miden

Joined
Sep 9, 2005
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Hi guys,

I made a hunting knife with a fuller groove for a guy and neither of us really know what the groove is for, we just both thought it gave the blade a better look.

"Blood" groove should be self explanatory but I am not a hunter so it does not fully make sense to me. I have also seen a large number of hunters that do not have this so I am inclined to think it is not all that necessary.

Can somebody please educate me?
Thanks,

Mike
 
It really has no place on a hunting knife. Its a throwback to swords and then became a fad in combat knives. Originally a fuller was used to stiffen a long blade, and reduce the overall weight. It sort of gives an "I" beam like cross section.
I don't know who came up with the term "blood groove" but the claim is that it allows blood to flow out around the blade when you stab someone/something. This is supposed to make for a quicker kill, and also is supposed to prevent the blade from getting stuck as easily in soft tissue.

I really doubt the merit of a "blood groove" in a combat knife. Not interested in testing it out, but I doubt it makes much of a difference at all. And obviously most knives don't really need a fuller to stiffen the blade the way a long skinny sword would.

So in the end I'd say its cosmetic. A kabar wouldn't look the same without that groove in the blade, whether it serves any purpose or not :)
 
Thanks for the very concise explanation Matt.

So even though it serves no real purpose besides cosmetics and it makes a kabar look good I guess it is okay if I use it to make my hunters look good?;)

Some people seem to like it.

Thanks sincerely for the info.:thumbup:

Mike
 
These were also forged into the antique Blades to save steel when making swords.

Mike quick question for you,First gotta picture of your knife?We would all like to see it.Second,How did you put your fuller into the blade and how did you finish it out?Inquiring minds want to know:D ....

Bruce
 
Bruce, thanks for the reply.

Sorry, no, I do not have a pic of the knife, not in digital anyway. I only acquired a digital camera recently. I did however snap a pic with a regular camera before I sent it off.
I wonder if I could take a digital pic of the photo?? I will try. It is pretty much a rip off of a Buck knife, this is what the guy wanted.
I looked at the Buck original tho and was disappointed in the shoddiness of the groove, looked like some guy just stuck it against the grinding wheel and did not bother to finish it properly, very rough.

Anyhow, I cheated with mine. I did it on a milling machine with a new 3/16 radius cutter and then polished it up with a felt tipped mounted point which I dressed to the right diameter in a hand held rotary grinder. It worked really well. Just have to be careful that it does not skate out of the groove....otherwise....:mad:

If I cannot get the picture thing right, I am about to make another knife with a similar groove and I will be sure to take a digital pic of that one.

Mike
 
mike, if you have a scanner you can scan it onto your computer as a jpg or such. i'd tell you how, except that i'm on a mac, and i'm not sure i could even tell you how on that lol.
Alex
 
Thanks for that tip Alex, I will have to try with the scanner.

I do not have one at home but I do have access to one at work. I will be back there on Wednesday.:barf:

I tried taking a few digital pics of the photo and they all come out blurred and crappy. Maybe it is not meant to be. I will try the scanner next week.

Peter, I hang my head in shame.:o
How is the toe doing?

Mike
 
Hi, Miden; Matt got it right. I would love to give you more history of the Fuller, But this topic, and a few others, seems to bring out the trolls! Why, I don't know. It's a shame, but any real, or technical question on this forum, can get anyone answering one in good faith. , in a pile of, well, a Pile. I really hate that its that way. Too many troll, Mall ninjas, armchair warriors. Great luck on the Fullers. Bob Loveless showed me a knife that a friend of his made, with a full fuller in the style of the Sologin knives. Beautiful work. Mike http://home.earthlink.net/~michaellovett/
 
Learned something today..Ithought a blood grove was so when you stuck it in the blood would flow around it thus the suction wouldn't be able to take place and the knife would be easier to pull out..

Oh well there goes that theroy. Although mine is way cooler..LOL
 
islandmike said:
Learned something today..Ithought a blood grove was so when you stuck it in the blood would flow around it thus the suction wouldn't be able to take place and the knife would be easier to pull out..

Oh well there goes that theroy. Although mine is way cooler..LOL
Click to expand...

This has been tested and proven to be just a theory. Blood doesn't create suction, tissue being forced apart creates suction/friction. Please don't take offense. Just laying it on the table.


One clarification on the fuller / I-beam idea...

The act of putting in the fuller does not stiffen the knife. Rather, (if we adopt the I-beam analogy) it is the flanges being raised that "stiffens" the knife.

So, if you have a 1/4" thick knife with a 1/16" deep fuller (resulting in a 1/8" thick cross section at the bottom of the fuller)....then you could conclude that the knife is indeed stronger/stiffer than a 1/8" thick knife...and probably stronger than even a 3/16" thick knife. But not stronger than a 1/4" thick knife.


Fullers have been around for a hundreds/thousands of years. Take a look at some of the ethnic blades around the world and throughout history and you'll see that the "American Fuller" aka blood-groove is not a new idea, and actually rather plain...relatively speaking.

It is, of course, a very cool-looking feature on a knife. And why can't that be a good enough reason to have it there? Works for me. :thumbup:
 
This might be a myth similer to the "blood groove", but I've heard that besides the lightening/stiffening/steel saving benifits already discussed, If it's mirror polished the fuller can act as a signal mirror in survival situation. I've never tried signaling with a shiney fuller, so I don't know how well it really works, just thought I'd mention it for discussion.
 
Thanks for all the positive input guys.

Good to see no trolls got lured into the debate.:D
It is always better to learn the truth and facts, it might not always be what you want to hear (not the case here) but the facts are what you need. If you want to wade through piles of...well, there is always more of that readily available. :(

I attended my first knife show in SA years ago and was standing at the table of a knife maker friend and listened to him explain something about a knife to a potential customer. Very in-depth facts and he clearly knew what he was talking about. He sold the knife!
Afterwards he gave me a tip. He said that making good knives is not enough, you have to inform yourself about everything you do because some guy will come in with cash in his pocket, wanting to buy a knife and he might know a lot about knives but just cannot make them himself. If you try to baffle him with BS to try to hide your lack of knowledge he will just walk away. The best advertizing is by word of mouth and a bad reputation is difficult to shake.

Thanks Matt, Bruce, Daniel and Mike. When 4 experts agree then I can rest assured the info is sound. Thanks for taking the time.:thumbup:

Mike

ps, is there a difference between an "American" fuller and any other? Are there certain parameters to stay within or is it just personal taste?
 
I just thought this discussion could use a pic :) :

orig.jpg


This is Dan Farr's most recent competition cutter. The primary reason he gave for including a fuller was reduced weight and added speed.

Cheers,

Roger
 
miden said:
ps, is there a difference between an "American" fuller and any other? Are there certain parameters to stay within or is it just personal taste?
Click to expand...

The only knife related thing I've heard of where the "American" version is significantly different from any other version is on tanto blades, I've never heard of an American fuller.
 
"American fuller" = my fabrication.

I would define it as a straight fuller that is put on a knife to give it that "Rambo" appeal. ;)


"Western fuller" - same general shape/size/etc. but found on swords, daggers, dirks, seaxes, etc. - not to be bada$$, but to lighten the weight


"Eastern fuller" - most obvious example is a khukuri. Wider than the others, used to lighten the blade as well as dress it up.



You won't find these terms in your Merriam-Webster dictionary....:rolleyes:
 
khukuri fuller pic:

0810011.jpg



So, yes, miden, your 2.5" fuller is just fine by me. :D
 
Thanks for the how to on the fuller.The Blade I am going to try has 2 small fullers running the length of the blade and I believe I am going to have to scrape them in instead of using the mill.Great Thread.
Bruce
 
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