Fuller, how to?

[nirim]

I there
I need to make fuller groove on double edge dagger. I know how to do it and I even build a nice tool that I saw on one of the knife website. My question is: do I make the groove before or after I shape the knife bevel?
Thanks
Nirim

 

[Bruce Bump]

I think the best way is after the bevel is complete. If you remove the "ridge" its difficult to grind the bevels.
My favorite method is to use a surface grinder to grind the fuller in after heat treatment. Simply dress a stone to the desired fuller shape and set the grinder stops and depth.

Welcome to bladeforums.
They will likely move this thread to Shop Talk but thats OK, you will get advice there too.

 

[nirim]

Thanks Bruce.
You are probably right as I don’t have much experience with fuller technique. I just thought that if the blade profile is established then the ridge line is very sharp (That is my technique to form to groove) and may detract the scraper blade when passing over the knife.
nirim

 

[sunshadow]

I like Bruce's method (Bruce does amazing work, and if you have a surface grinder that is a brilliant use of it) for poor guys like me, you forge the bevels in, then use a fullering tool to forge them in (helps to forge the ridge flat first) or if I am doing stock removal I put a ball end mill in my milling machine and mill it out. You can if you are using a sen (scraper) do it after grindig and before heat treating. Maybe Stacy will chime in as he uses Sens regularly

-Page

 

[nirim]

Well appreciated answer.
However I been asking the same question on British blade forum and they of the opinion that it better to do it on the flat bar and then shape the bevel (stock removal). Alas I think both method are good, it depends what you get use to.
nirim

 

[sunshadow]

Well appreciated answer.
However I been asking the same question on British blade forum and they of the opinion that it better to do it on the flat bar and then shape the bevel (stock removal). Alas I think both method are good, it depends what you get use to.
nirim

the downside of that is it looks weird if you put in a proper distal taper (I know a lot of stock removal don't do distal tapers but if you don't your blade balances poorly and looks clunky and amatuerish)

-Page

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

The technique can vary depending on the blade size and all, but what has worked for me on an average size dagger is:
Grind the blade profile,
Add the distal taper,
Grind in the four bevels to create a sharp centerline,
File the centerline flat where the fuller will sit,
Use a mill and ball burr to mill in the start of the fuller.
After it is centered and milled about 75%, switch to scrapers, round files, stones, and sandpaper.

 

[Rick Marchand]

I forge the bevels and distal taper, forge the fuller to 50%, grind to 90% and finish by hand with paper, stones and scrapers.

 

[rwn2000]

the downside of that is it looks weird if you put in a proper distal taper (I know a lot of stock removal don't do distal tapers but if you don't your blade balances poorly and looks clunky and amatuerish)

-Page

Page, don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel.

randy

 

[crimsonfalcon07]

I'd think it would depend at least some on how you're fullering it. I don't forge, so I'll defer to the experts on that. But if you're putting the fuller in with a mill (or the ghetto way, with an angle grinder and sandpaper like I do), it may be easier to start your fuller with the flat bar, grind bevels in, then touch up the fuller so it doesn't look weird/clunky/amateurish. I like to start it flat because I find it easier to set the fuller without anything to knock my tooling off. Then I grind the bevels, and the fuller I put in already is there as a guide so I don't have quite as much trouble refining it after the bevels are in. YMMV.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

Starting flat is fine....just make sure you first grind the distal taper. It will still be flat.
If I was to do it that way, I would taper the bar of steel , then make the fullers, then shape the profile, then grind the bevels. That would make sure the fullers were centered.