Fyi- Design Issues

[JB Knives]

Just thought I would post this here before any accusations are made. I am not sure how big an issue this is, but I figured it was better to hear it from me first.
(following is an e-mail communication- responses sent to the 1st party and to Graham Knives 5-14-07)

Thanks for the response, Spencer. I actually own a Graham Bros. Mid-tech Razel, and it is an excellent tool in the knife shop. As far as your concerns:
1.- My Lacerator was based on a reverse- tanto blade. The angle of the tip was reduced to provide greater tip strength. I was aware of the Razels- however, I felt my design was unique enough in construction and design to stand on its own and not encroach on the Graham Bros. business or designs. If the Graham Bros. disagree, I can alter the point angle until it more resembles a reverse-tanto shape than a Razel, although some performance will be lost. Almost every design has been created before- does this mean there is no more room for new maker's designs? I don't know for sure, but I hope not.
2.- My pocket sheath is essentially a left-handed belt sheath with less blade retention on the knife to allow easier use. I have carried factory knives with right-handed kydex belt sheaths in my left pocket for years ( I am left handed). It was only natural for me to want to apply this to my own knives. My sheaths also differ in construction from the Graham Bros. Kydex sheaths in several ways. Again, this seems to be an issue of everything to do having been done before. If necessary, I can describe them as left- handed belt sheaths and inform customers they can be worn as right-hand pocket sheaths.
Graham Brothers, I welcome your concerns or comments. I am a young maker (25 yrs. old), and I am new to the knifemaking world as a business of sorts. As a new maker, the last thing I need is to be labelled a thief or a fraud. Due to your seniority in this business, I will follow any reccomendations you may have. I did not enter into knifemaking so I could rip off the hard work of others, and if you feel I am doing so, I will GLADLY resolve this issue. All I want to do is make the knife I have always wanted but never found. My contact info. is below; and I thank you for your time in this matter.
Spencer, thanks for the warning. I was mostly unaware of the cutthroat nature of the world of custom knives (ha ha). It always seemed, when I was learning, that knifemakers by nature were not that adversarial and always willing to help the new guys. I am just glad someone brought this to my attention before I was accused of idea theft.
I will also try to post this on bladeforums to inform others of this situation before accusations are made; also as a warning to other new knifemakers. Perhaps there just isn't any room yet for us young'uns in the knifemaking world- although I hope this isn't the case. I love what I do, and I was looking forward to many years more.
- JIM BAKER
jimbaker@jbknives.biz
jbknives@yahoo.com
www.jbknives.biz

SC65SURF@aol.com wrote:
Hey Jim

I was surfing blade forums and checked out your wepage 2 things really stuck out and not in a good way.

1 the lacerator looks almost exactly like a Graham Knives SS5 just wondering where your inspiration for this knife came about if by accident then I encourage you to call the Graham brother and talk with them.

Also the pocket sheath is featured on there website as well, the Graham brother have been around for quite some time and from your webpage you state you just started making?

It has been my experience that stuff of this nature is very gray area and usually ends up in a very bad flame war on the forums. The end result one maker will be called a copier and producing a fake, Jim please do not take this the wrong way I am just bringing this to your attention as well as the graham Brother.

You have some good skills and designs on your page so with that check out the Grahams webpage and make a decision for your self http://www.grahamknives.com/.

Intellectual property is a valued and guarded fiercely these days and stuff of this nature has a way of working itself out.

Spencer







--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
See what's free at AOL.com.

 

[jdm61]

This may be a tempest in a tea pot. If things like Graham's patents and trademarks were broad enough to cover a knife like yours, then I would think they might be procluded from protecting their own designs because they generally resemble some dive knives that have been around for a long time as much as your design resembles the Razel. It will be interesting to hear what, if any response you get. As far as knifemaking goes, that is one thing that I love about the ABS. For most of the smiths, the only intellectual property they protect fiercely is their name and trademark.....design is pretty much "public domain"

 

[Grahamknives]

Jim,

Can we talk on the phone privately, before this becomes something that is isn't?

 

[JB Knives]

Sounds good, Josh. When should I call?

 

[JB Knives]

Spoke to Josh Graham on the phone. Just to let everyone know, there are no problems whatsoever; and we agree that similar features on a knife does not make them the same knife.
Just to be perfectly clear, I did not mean to imply that Graham Knives had accused me of infringing on thier design; I merely wanted to bring this issue to attention and let everyone know that the similarities were not intentional.
Josh Graham was very pleasant and helpful on the phone, and I am glad to have this issue resolved. I look forward to meeting the Graham Bros. at next year's blade show- hopefully many more makers as well!

 

[jdm61]

The thing that I forgot to mention is that most folks in the custom knife biz are very nice and bend over backwards to help out and share with new guys like us. But then again, I am sure that you just discovered that:thumbup: My only negative experience in this type of thing happened long before I started making knives. Back when I was a lowly laywer, a knifemaker came to me with a problem. He had designed a knife specifically for a movie and protected the design. As it turned out, a rather famous maker of fantasy type knives stole his design down to the last detail, probably from puiblicity shots from the B movie that it was used in, and started not only making and selling the knife, but using it in some of his ads. THAT is a very clear cut case and fortunately, one of the few that I have heard of that went that far. Most customs guys, however, have better things to do with their time like make superior knives and help their fellow knifemakers just like people helped them when they were starting off.

 

[JB Knives]

The thing that I forgot to mention is that most folks in the custom knife biz are very nice and bend over backwards to help out and share with new guys like us. But then again, I am sure that you just discovered that:thumbup:

I certainly did. What an amazing business/hobby this is- no set hours, no "boss", and friendly help all around. Makes me proud to be a knifemaker!

 

[Keith Montgomery]

Josh, it's great to see reason win out.

 

[mlovett]

Hey Guys! Glad to see all is well. I think Spence over reacted a little here. I just took a look at both knives and see a world of difference here. The Razel is an effective tool for what it is designed for. You may have trouble with the Chinese! A lot of Chinese chef's knife going on there, with a little Japanese at the tip. You are so right. almost everything has been done before. This thing Spence spoke of about folks getting upset, and i know of at least one suit on recent years, is very new to the knife world. We use to be honored when some one wanted to use our design. Now it is all about greed. Like so many other things. I,being a little naive, thought we were beyond that. But The last few years have pr oven me wrong. So glad it worked out for everyone. Now carry on and make some Knives! Mike