G-10 Durability!

M

MSaxatilus

Joined
Feb 19, 2002
Messages
36
Sorry if this thread has already been started, but I can't seem to perform searches on here any more.

My question is, how durable is G-10 for scale materials compared to other types of scale material like FRN, Linen-Micarta, SS, etc.?

I have to admit it looks great, but just curious about its durability.
 
For overall durability in a scale material I would rate them like this...

Carbon Fiber
G-10
Steel/Aluminum
Some woods
FRN
Linen Micarta
Some more woods
Paper Micarta
and Some more woods and bone


Steel, aluminum, frn and Micarta are all very speculative because it would depend on a lot of other factors and what you mean by durable. Do you mean scratch resistance or resistance to breaking or bending?

Also you have to take into consideration whether or not the scale is being backed up by a steel or titanium liner.

To answer your question though, G-10 is basically as tough as it gets next to Carbon Fiber.
 
I've only had G-10 twice now... the millie for the last 2 months, and about 2 months of carry(and little use) on the wegner jr [traded away].

I find G-10 to be very durable so far. I have yet to damage this handle on the millie. not a scratch, gouge, dent, or discolouration.

my FRN handles have dents and scratches after about 2 weeks of carry...

my tufram cricket has a good number of scratches, dents, and bends in the scales(busy making SS scales though)...

my SS dragonfly is marked up from lots of work... the blade is almost as scratched as the handles(or at least it was till I took 80-1200 grit sandpaper to it).

haven't played with CF handles, or almite handles... wood holds up well(so far), and micarta depends on the material used for a base, but the paper micarta on my fathers old knife has held up to the ages.
 
I have quite a few knives with G-10 scales, and they ALL have held-up VERY well. Also, G-10 is very nice to work with, if sharp edges need a little rounding & smoothing...I have done that with all of my G-10 handled knives, with excellent results.:).
 
I agree with g-10 being some of the best for handle material. 5 out of 7 knives that I have bought recenlty have been with g-10.
Once I used g-10, my frn, and alum handed knives were retired.
 
I even heard of knives made entirely of G-10! I wonder how do they sharpen them, though :rolleyes:
 
I made this one out of Carbon fiber which is very similar to G-10 except the Fiberglass is replaced with carbon mesh.

It takes a pretty keen edge, sharp enough to cut skin but far from steel.

Makes a cool letter opener and conversation piece.
 
and every one of them has held up as well as or better than anything other materials that I have seen used in hilts or scales except certain metals, and those are nowhere nearly as comfortable and/or otherwise ergonometric. THe knife for which I can most cleaarly speak is my StarMate, which i have carried and carried annd have used in any and all circumstances where the law allows it. The black G-10 has held up superbly, no wear, no nicks, scratches, or discoloration, even after it fell out of my pocket and was driven over by my Dodge Caravan ("So that was what that thump was!")
 
Originally posted by cpirtle
I made this one out of Carbon fiber which is very similar to G-10 except the Fiberglass is replaced with carbon mesh.

It takes a pretty keen edge, sharp enough to cut skin but far from steel.

Makes a cool letter opener and conversation piece.
Click to expand...

Cpirtle, right! And I'll buy the bridge you're trying to sell me as well. ROFLMAO!
 
Well, I'm glad you find humor in that, but it's true.

Skin is not that hard to cut, you can do it with a sharpened piece of wood :rolleyes:
 
cpirtle,

Let's say for argument that I don't doubt your CF bladed knife. How was it machined and what do you use to sharpen this little hummer? What kind of respirator do you use while sharpening? Ever hear of something called "corker"? What are the effects of chemical intrusion on the fiber layering since you've opened up a large part of the weave to esxposure? Man look at these questions....it is a great conversation piece.

Don't get me wrong here. The theory may be valid and CF could make an interesting blade but serves little purpose. Too many issues like the effect of heat on the weave during sharpening/machining, environmental precautions needed for CF cuttings and residue, consideration of compressive and torsional forces the blade sees during use, impact resistance, corrosive daily use environments, etc. Some of the same issues face the introduction of ceramic blades into the industry but some manufactures have taken that step. I have 2 Boker ceramics and they came with clear warnings about impact strength, special care for the blade, and what you can and cannot cut with them. Cool knives but limited use.

Yeah, a letter opener sounds about right. Cool pic though!! The open weave along the spine looks like fine file work. ;)


Stay safe! Stay sharp!
 
IMO, Steel or Titan would have to be king of durability (not counting scratches). It is far more effective to break out a window with a steel of Titan handled knife.

After that, I would have to say that G-10 and Carbon Fiber would follow.

In a caustic environment, like salt water, G-10 and carbon Fiber would be superior to steel. Titan is not easily affected by salt water.

I also understnd that natural sheep horn is quite tough, but I have little firsthand experience.

But durability must be balanced with weight, cost, comfort, grip, manufacturability, etc. All things considered, my first choice would probably be G-10 or sand blasted carbon fiber.

BTW, depending onthe direction of the layup, carbon fiber, sharpened with a coarse emery paper mounted on glass will produced a surpizingly effective cutting edge.

sal
 
Sal, thanks for getting my back ;)

Java, I think you need to lighten up on your namesake :) :rolleyes:

Originally posted by java
How was it machined and what do you use to sharpen this little hummer?
Click to expand...

It was not machined, it was all done by hand with the exception of a scroll saw to rought cut it. It does not need sharpened because it's a letter opener, but since you're concerned I put the original edge on with DMT stones.

Originally posted by java
What kind of respirator do you use while sharpening?
Click to expand...

Like I said, I only sharpened it once but when I was making it I used a Particulate Respirator, same thing I use when working with G-10.

Originally posted by java
Ever hear of something called "corker"?
Click to expand...

No, but I'm sure you are going to tell me...

Originally posted by java
What are the effects of chemical intrusion on the fiber layering since you've opened up a large part of the weave to esxposure?
Click to expand...

I don't know, don't really care, maybe this would be a question to ask one of the 1,000 knife makers who use CF on a daily basis.

I can tell you that the effect on the envelopes it gets unleashed on is that they get cut.

Originally posted by java
Don't get me wrong here. The theory may be valid and CF could make an interesting blade but serves little purpose. Too many issues like the effect of heat on the weave during sharpening/machining, environmental precautions needed for CF cuttings and residue, consideration of compressive and torsional forces the blade sees during use, impact resistance, corrosive daily use environments, etc.
Click to expand...

There have been custom makers producing knives for years out of pure CF or G-10. They generally serve 2 purposes, to stab and to have no magnetic signature.

You are presenting scenario's here that my little letter opener, sitting on my desk waiting for the next batch of mail, will never see.

Originally posted by java
Cool knives but limited use.
Click to expand...

Yep, a letter opener, but I think I mentioned that already...
 
Originally posted by cpirtle
Java, I think you need to lighten up on your namesake :) :rolleyes:
/B]
Click to expand...

Maybe after the cut my Profi Estro single draw espresso machine gave me toaday, I should! Didn’t realize it could take on such an edge but that’s another discussion.

Chad,

Perhaps I should’ve phrased my comments with for the sake of discussion. I don’t doubt your ability and stated it was a cool looking knife. I’ve worked with carbon-fiber laminates and have reservations about anyone blindly jumping in and working the material without considering all aspects. My first question shows you are at least thinking about the most important aspect – that of your own personal safety.

I don’t want to delve in too technically here but the carbon fiber (CF) we speak of is actually a carbon-fiber laminate. The fibers are long chain polymers of acrylonitriles or poly-acrylonitriles (PAN). Acrylonitrile is a known carcinogen which is why I asked about the respirator. The fibers are woven in a mesh and the weave and layering orientation are determined by its intended use. The thermoplastic resin that binds the layers and the form (prepreg or wet layup) are carefully selected to achieve a good design and the type of resin along with the fiber type and orientation is selected to satisfy the product performance characteristics. CF Laminates have different performance characteristics and can be tailored to the application. They are not ALL salt water resistant and do not machine the same.

As for machining, maybe I’m guilty of splitting hairs here but those are simple machines you’re using to cut, form, and smooth the blade. The concern here was what you used to mill/shape/cut/form the blade and the respirator issue again to avoid the particulate CF and resins.

Corker is by product of burnt laminates and an interesting sidebar, to me, because of personal experience in the aviation industry. It is more of a concern for large dimension laminates so I’ll drop the reference since we’re dealing small scale here. Still makes for a good war-story in some circles.

As for chemical intrusion on the open weave, I asked you for an opinion because of your experience here. I have seen stress failure and delamination of CF laminates due to salt water intrusion - even worse when oils and petrochemicals invade an unsealed surface. Just curious. Don’t know – Don’t care it will have to be then.

I like your response on how it handles envelops and as Sal pointed out CF laminates can take a sharp edge depending on the lay up. My opinion again, but even paper can take on a sharp edge (I’ve had enough paper cuts to prove that). I’m sure paper Micarta can take some edge but we have to balance the ability to take an edge with the ability to retain that edge under use. Sal’s claim of an effective edge would need definition here. If we go by the hemp rope test or subject a CF laminate blade to rigorous daily use, I’m not 100% on Sal’s claim so that’s open to discussion. Ceramics show superior edge retention for SOME objects but I wouldn’t trust them with everything my Rookie sees on a daily basis.

The rest of the quotes were opinion (mine) and we can discuss them at length or...not. Your call. Still a cool looking knife and like my ceramics, still limited use. Your “high-tech” letter opener may never see the stabbing use or have to pass through airport security undetected but thanks for the info.

If I offended you with my questions or the manner they were asked I apologize. I do take a tongue-in-cheek, even cavalier attitude with my posts both here and on the Spyderco forum at times. The personal safety aspect of working laminates like CF, Amarid, Kevlar, et al, needs to be reiterated for all those who may think’ “Cool! I bet I can do that.” Maybe I should have taken this up as a technical question to the other knifemakers out there but I felt due to your experience you could answer some quick questions, enlighten us with your work, and lead in to a discussion on the safety aspect.



You’re going to have to take some light ribbing here but if that’s your definition of happiness, (and as a diver, Sal can back me on this) you should take up SCUBA diving. Peeing in your wetsuit gives you a warm feeling and NO ONE can see it! :) :rolleyes:

Stay safe! Stay sharp!

Nice work on the Benchmade custom handles BTW!
 
I agree, I sharpned a Piece of CF on a grinding wheel and made a nice letter opener with it, nothing near the skill level or look of cpirtle's but very effective you can get a almost razor edge with it, I doubt it is durable as far as the edge but looks dang cool on my desk.
 
I have a large dagger or short sword I have worked on for about two years.

At the very beginning of this project I had scales cut out of both G-10 and CF by water jet.
Eventually, whichever I choose to use will require sanding and final fitting.

I find the visible weave in the CF most attractive, but now I wonder, after reading this thread, about the wisdom of exposing myself to CF particles.
It sounds as if the G-10, although aesthetically plainer, will do just as well or better without the risk to my health.
 
Both are hazards to your health (and skin!).

Just cover your body well and use a particulate mask which is not expensive (about $35).

G-10 is woven with Fiberglass which is no slouch in the "mess your lungs up" department.

Either product has fibers that can lodge in your skin and itch like crazy so try to cover as much skin as possible as well.
 
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