Gardening is a survival skill right? HELP!

Chris Pierce

Chris Pierce

Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
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So I built a garden. And I need help. I've gardened a little in the past. In highschool, when I lived in Northern California, I grew tomatoes. They had full sun, bad soil, 110-115 degree highs and 40 degree lows and I generally watered every other day. They just grew in a big unorganized patch in my back yard, and I'd just turn the hose on, stuff it in the bush and let it run for 5 minutes when I watered. I always had more tomatoes than I could eat.

Anyway, here's a description of my set up now. The beds are made from 2x10's with ceder 4x4's at the corners. There are three of them and they measure 12'x4' We filled the beds with about 8" of 75/25 mix of kelloggs 'all natural' top soil and composted steer manure. I weeded and turned over the soil about 12" before building. The garden gets about 4-5 hours of sun everyday and average high temp here is 85-95 the low at night is around 45-50.
Watering, we have a set up with 1/4" leaker hoses on a daily timer. They run for about 15 minutes in the early morning. I also go and check the soil for moisture content daily and water as needed. I planted 2 Anaheim peppers, 3 Tomatoes, 2 yellow squash, 3 zucchini, 2 string beans and 2 snap peas, 4 water melon and I'm sprouting some carrots and onions. I also planted one cucumber plant (which is doing very well)

Here's were the help part comes in.

The water melons hasn't really grown much in the past two weeks since I panted the starters. I think the temp isn't high enough here maybe. I've read that is the soil temp drops below 40 the melons will suffer. Is this correct?

The squash are growing very well but look a little wilty today. So I watered them a little more than usual. (It's very warm today, my thermometer shows 93 in the shade)

I have one tomato plant that was very large and healthy when I panted it (three weeks ago) and two small starters I planted (two weeks ago) The starters are growing well but have no fruit. The large plant produced one good tomato and now is turning yellow and a couple of the tomatoes had end rot :/

So what am i doing wrong? Too much water? Not enough? Do I need to add an amendment to the soil? Do the plants need more sun?

Here are some pictures of the garden and the tomato in question.

Something was eating one of our water melon so I put down some rat traps. ( I caught a possum a while ago and haven't seen one since, but I do see rats and squirrels running around the the trees and on the back wall, hence the rat traps)
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Here's the tomato. You can see the small tomato plant next to it, it looks nice and green and healthy and the large plant looks yellow and wilty.
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Close up of the leaves
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I need help from experienced gardeners!

Thanks
-Chris
 
Lack of food. As in? What do I need to give it?
Wouldn't this also be effecting my other plants?
It was doing very well and pretty much tripled in size in two weeks. This only started happening a few days ago.

Thanks for the help
 
I did some quick reading on the internets and found some "unusual" tomato fertilizers. Egg shells, coffee grounds, dog hair and dried banana peals. I'm working on the concoction right now.

It also said that human urine was a good fertilizer. :) That might be pushing it a little too far for me though.
 
Are you over watering? You give them a little shade, like covering them with netting. Ask your local garden shop. Also, it looks like you are not removing the "suckers". Suckers are the parisitic leaves that grow in the "armpits" of the branches. sometimes the grow along the branches as well. they rob the plant of energy they can go to growing the fruit.they do not produce buds, they really don't contribute to the overall health or growth of the plant. Just pinch them off. I see many of them on the sides of your branches. the plant does not need them. again, double check with your garden center. they will probably be able to show you if they have any seedlings around.
 
I have worked with these unusual kinds of fertilizers before. While they can work, in my experience they are slow to act and have minimal results.

Since these all ready appear deficient in nutrients I don't think they will be good enough.


I would suggest buying a bottle of liquid nutrients and mix it up by the gallon, preferably one high in nitrogen. Follow the directions and feed them with that. I like to buy the organic variety, many different brands out there. Should not be hard to find.


ac1d0v3r1d3 said:
I did some quick reading on the internets and found some "unusual" tomato fertilizers. Egg shells, coffee grounds, dog hair and dried banana peals. I'm working on the concoction right now.

It also said that human urine was a good fertilizer. :) That might be pushing it a little too far for me though.
Click to expand...
 
Hi,
I'm a tropical plant technician so i hope i can be of a little help to you.
(1)(Main problem) Not enough hours of light. You need about eight hours of good light for just about any food producing plant.
(2) Even though you did a great job getting the soil ready you still need to check the pH of the soil it see if it is right for your choice of plants. You can get a tester for around $12 at any garden center.
(3) This i can't be sure of but from your close up pic it looked to me like you many have spider mites. (very small fine webs between leaves) These mites suck juices from the plant stunting it's growth.
 
raschalt2000 said:
(3) This i can't be sure of but from your close up pic it looked to me like you many have spider mites. (very small fine webs between leaves) These mites suck juices from the plant stunting it's growth.
Click to expand...

ac1d0v3r1d3 said:
I just looked and yes I definitely have spider mites. How can I get rid of spider mites?
Click to expand...

Dang Mang!
You got that Superman X-Ray vision goin on!
Im impressed
:thumbup:
 
fugawee said:
Dang Mang!
You got that Superman X-Ray vision goin on!
Im impressed
:thumbup:
Click to expand...

Yeah, seriously. Dude is good at his job.

I looked up how to kill these mites. I saw that I could buy Bugs to eat these bugs, but didn't want to wait for shipping or look around town for a place that might sell them. So I made a solution of rubbing alcohol and water and sprayed the heck out of all my tomato plants. The big one still looks like hell but I don't see anymore webs or mites. I did catch some eggs though. Hopefully this will work out.

I also read that keeping the area wet and thus humid will help keep the population to a minimum. Is this true?



Also, I made a concoction of egg shells, dog hair, coffee grounds and banana peals and buried it around the big tomato. Hopefully this will help it to grow. I Figured that it wouldn't hurt.
 
if you run into problems with lack of water you might look at making some DIY "Earth boxes"....they work pretty well for those that don't have as much space as you have..
 
With the plants you have I have only grown tomatoes
if you dont care about organic, miracle grow has a fertilizer for tomatos that always gave me good luck, I diluted it alittle more than the package said

lol urine works as a fertilizer quite well but do not use urine on anything you are going to ingest, and it would also have to be diluted heavily

as for water, I live in FL so im sure the climate is alittle different, but I always kept the soil atleast moist but not soaked

obviously im no expert, and good luck with the mites, I have been lucky so far only caterpillars on mine every now and then



ETA: Mine also get full sun from about 10am to sunset
 
I'll give it a shot. The light is going to be a bit of a problem. Common vegetable plants need a minimum of 6 hours of sun light. Without it you are going to see your plants stretch and become weak. Most noticeably will be the tomato. Lettuce on the other hand might do very well in that area. You could do a 4 x 4 patch with roughly 1/4oz of seed and come out very good.
Also the food you are giving them isn't gonna be enough. While table scraps will eventually make a nice compost, your plants are hungry now and need some food. There are several good organic companies on the market my personal favorite being espoma. If you are wanting to go all natural, do it your self, catch some fish, put them in your bass-o-matic and make a nice fish emulsion milk shake.
Another concern would be the soil composition. A simple topsoil and manure mixture will eventually become hard and compact. It will dry quickly and not hold nutrients well. At the least i would divide a 4cu.ft. bale of peat moss over the two at some point. This will help your soil maintain and even moisture content and stay light and aerated. An alternate to the peat would be soil conditioning ground and aged pine or a bag of gypsum. If you want to get really fancy add some perlite and vermiculite.
I run my families garden center and have personally built dozens of raised beds for myself and customers. And the first year your garden is gonna stink. It happens to most everybody. But as the seasons pass by your soil will become more mature and basically it will start to be alive with organic activity. Just be patient and your garden will turn around. Also for the watermelon, it's lack of growth might be a blessing. One healthy watermelon plant could cover that bed and not produce but 2 or 3 melons. Use your space wisely and grow up when possible. Cucumbers do well trellising up as do sugar peas when the season is right. One last thing, worms, and lots of them! good luck and happy gardening!
 
In my opinion your tomato needs an instant-acting, soluble, commercial fertiliser right now. You can worry about going organic and making your own later.
It would be a good idea to start a compost bin too if you haven't already. Compost is a great way to feed and improve the soil long-term. Just make a box about a yard cubed and throw in all your weeds, plant trimmings and food scraps, along with an occasional spadeful of earth to get it going. If it looks too dry, add a little water. Urine would be better!
I'm not sure you need to worry too much about light. Here in England we get nothing like as much sunshine as you appear to do. So long as there is a reasonable amount of indirect light in the hours the sun is not shining directly on your garden you should be ok.
 
I think you should wade in with something dedicated for the purpose too.Here's a quick 101 on ferts. Look at the back of any bottle and you will see a ratio N:P:K. As a rule of thumb a bigger N# relative to the others is for the veg stage. Think green lush growth. A bigger K value relative to the others is for your fruit and flower stage. This holds whether you are growing skunk, tomatoes or a blackberry bush. Sometimes the values will all be low say 3:4:4 sometimes they will be high mebe 7:9:7, why do you care it's a ratio.Pissing on the soil round some plants can be good for them because it introduces nitrogen - the "N" in out ratio. A direct hit on the leaves is best avoided whether you are to eat the crop or not. I'm sure we've all seen dog piss burns on a lawn. Plus adding nitrogen is not always what you want to be doing. I think an occasional squirt in your compost bin when you dig some fish blood and bone in to that is is probably favorite.Whatever, with your tomatoes you want to get something on them with higher K value now the vines are up and you are in fruit / flower stage. However, I think you are getting the nitrogen advise above because yours are looking a tad insipid and lacking the vigorous lush green growth in addition to what I said.
fruits000.jpg
...Excellent eye on the mite nemesis!
 
I would expect, due to the manure, that your nitrogen and phosphorous are sufficient.

Blossom end rot is caused by Calcium deficiency. Calcium deficiency may indicate a low pH.

Have your pH tested. When soil is too acidic, or too basic, certain nutrients cannot be taken up by the plant roots. To raise the pH (less acidic), lime (Calcium) is added. The eggshells will provide some calcium, but any organic form of nutrients must be broken down to an inorganic form by soil microbes before it is available for the plant to use. Very fine limestone (CaCo3) or hydrated lime (Ca(OH)2) will probably be more quickly available.

For about $10, a soil test can tell you a lot more about your nutrient needs than some guy on the internet. And it is not wise to add amendments, especially lime, without knowing the initial condition of your soil as adding too much can also cause problems.
 
not to take away from the suggestions of others but this has been a bad year for tomatoes in my area. i have talked to several experienced gardeners who's tomatoes havent done squat. ours have done half way decent but not the bumper crop we normally expect. so... try what you want but it may not be anything other than the stupid weather conditions much of the country has been experiencing this year. keep trying and hopefully next year will be better. after all thats why they call it gardening.
josh
 
ugh. not reading all these responses.. looks like everyone wants you to throw fert. on those toms.. Just looking at the photos I would say you are fertilizer burning your toms.

Too much N in my opinion. Plus, 4 hours direct light isn't going to make the best plants, but will grow them.. AND, it's too late to start growing tomatoes in most parts of the country. Toms. also will begin to die back when night time temps. drop below 50F.

Don't use miracle grow crap.. use simple organics.. food will taste better, less flushing required during fruiting phase.. Fresh starts need a couple weeks before you dump ferts on them, otherwise you will get all kinds of weird growth issues and more than likely burn them. You needs a larger root base before you dump crap on it.. And don't keep adding ferts.. space it out.. ferts will build up in soil if they aren't used and that will compound soil Ph problems. Over watering won't help.. Once every 2 days is plenty, if the soil is cool/moist to the touch about an inch below surface, it's fine. Wet soil is bad.

Another consideration is your bedsize and what you are hoping to grow.. watermelon and zuc will take over if they are grown properly.. you need a huge bed for 2 plants of that variety otherwise expect lots of space being covered by vines and leaves.

Dog hair won't help this year, it takes a long time to break down..

I don't see the mite webs, I see tomato glands.. but if you inspect the plant you'll see little black specs moving around if you do have mites.. biodegradable soap with citrus added, small parts per gallon and spray helps deter them.

I'm not used to growing in your zone, but I think you are trying to grow plants that want to be fruiting NOW not just starting.. again, unsure of timezone and climate.

gl, don't overdo it.. take your time, things don't "fix" in a few days..

OH< one last comment, your beds, what are they built on? is drainage thought out? is the ground underneath hard pan clay? did you till under it or is it soft? did you put holes in the bottom sides of the wood if not so as to allow for proper drainage? water pooling even 10inch below surface is a no win situation.

gl!
 
I'm not planning on using any chemical fertilizers. The tomatoes look better today still yellow but not as droopy, I don't see as many mites. I sprayed them with my alcohol solution again.
I live in southern California. The record low here is 43 degrees, so I believe that Tomatoes will do alright in to the fall and early winter. I've read on a local gardening blog that folks here can expect a harvest into late December.
As far as my beds, as I mentioned before, I turned over the soil underneath the beds about 12" before building. The soil was dry, but not terribly hard. I was able to dig it in easily. I made sure everything was level when I built them, so water won't pool anywhere. Drainage hasn't been a problem as far as I can tell. I don't water the entire bed, only around the base of the plants. I also have the soaker hoses, which really help to minimize watering.
The zucchini I planted at the recommended distance apart, which is 18-24" I figure that if they start getting too big I can train them onto the walk ways if need be. The garden is fenced to keep my 3yo son and the dogs out.
The water melon really aren't doing anything yet. I had wanted to plant lettuce and cabbage, but I could not find any locally and the water melons were available. So I thought I'd try them out.


As far as fertilizers burning my plants, wouldn't this effect all my plants? It's only the big tomato with the mites on it that's suffering.
Also, the reason that I am starting my garden right now is because I just moved here. I would have preferred to start in the spring, but I'm working with what I have.

What do you all like to grow in the fall? What should I replace my tomatoes with this winter? Remember my winter might be more like your spring/early summer. The temperature can be up to 90 degrees in Jan but is usually more like 60-70 (day time highs)
 
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