GB Scandinavian axe for bushcraft?

[killa_concept]

Ok - so a small lead up here: I own a number of HI kukris which have been my go-to choppers, limbers, wood processors and rough shaping tools when carving. Recently, I've had a real bad urge to get an axe for similar tasks and heavier chopping. After reading around, I decided on a Gransfors Bruks.

Now here's the thing: I'm really stuck between the GB Small Forest Axe and the Scandinavian Forest Axe. Obviously, the former would be a better choice for bushcraft tasks and is more portable, but I'm afraid that at 19", it would be too awkward to use with one hand and too short to use with two while chopping. Now at 25", the Scandi would probably make for a much better chopper that you could get full two handed swings with, but how does it stand up for rough wood carving when you choke up? Does the long handle make usage for this and other bushcraft tasks awkward?

Sorry in advance as I know the Small Forest vs Scandi has been done to death, but I'd just really like some fresh input.

 

[wildmike]

The 19" SFA works well with either one or two hands.

As a primer for good axe work I really reccomend you read Mors Kochanski's Northern Bushcraft. It has an excellent chapter on axecraft that details the proper use of the smaller axe.

The larger axe would be a better more efficient chopper. Especialy if you are looking at having to take down trees of over 8" or more in dia.

For bushcraft and survival use the SFA is a better choice due to the fact that one is generaly only cutting poles for shelters, limbing, and splitting wood and kindling.

Myself I prefer to work a pocket chainsaw up into a bowsaw in the field for crosscutting duties. A lot less work than chopping with less risk of injury.

 

[Barbarossa]

Maybe this will help
http://www.youtube.com/user/RitchiePowell#p/u/207/MVXj7JvKpHA

 

[Brian Andrews]

I have tons of axes, old and new. The Scandinavian Forest Axe is on my list to get, even though I am a bit afraid by the description from GB.

"Forged to a thin, curved bit and sharoened to make it suitable for cutting branches in fresh, resinous wood, spruce or pine."

I like the size of the axe, for its weight and size. But, it seems that its intentions are different from what I would use it for the most, so I am not too sure on it. I generally don't go after resinous wood, spruce or pine as a first choice.

I do have the SFA, and I really don't like it all that much. It is a super light, nimble head. While it is super high quality, I want an axe in that size range to hit a little harder. It seems more geared towards limbing and/or finer work.

I don't have any longer GB axes (yet), but I will tell you, once you go about 3" or 4" beyond that 19" handle, it is a whole different ball game. You can get 2 hands on the 19" okay, but with just a little more length you can get a real 2 handed grip and tons more power.

Let us know what you end up with either way. If you end up with the Scandinavian, we need a review There are no good detailed reviews of that one out there.

I have the american felling axe on the way, and I plan to do a lengthy write up on that one, as there is not much info on that one out there either.

B

 

[Briarbrow]

Please forgive me if I sound, off base. I have been wondering what all the heartache is about when I read discussion on axe handle length. The most important part-seems to me is the head. Nevertheless I am not sure what exactly are the differences between the heads of various GB, Wett., and or Husq. axes. ( I mean those of similar weight/design)

I wonder because making an axe handle is not a big problem, or at least it shouldn't be for us.

I was able to find a few threads discussing husqvarna (sp) axes, though I wasn't sure, I did feel confident that the 13 inch would supply me with a good swedish forged head as cheap as I could get. I did not like the handle, which I was pretty sure of when I bought it. 20 minutes or less choppin and splitting a lil hickory for my bbq grill and I was convinced. New handle 17.1/2 inch.

 

[Jnyiri]

The 19" handle is for one hand if you want a two handed axe go with the scandinavian. I have both and I like them both.

Jozsef

 

[LMT66]

The 19" handle is for one hand if you want a two handed axe go with the scandinavian. I have both and I like them both.

Jozsef

I'll second this and add that the Scandinavian will do HD work.

 

[cgd160]

Killa, the Small Forest works well with one hand and is a little awkward with two. I will second what Brian said, it is a good axe but a little on the light side, if your primary use will be for chopping go with the Scandinavian.

 

[killa_concept]

First off, thanks for all the input guys!

Maybe this will help
http://www.youtube.com/user/RitchiePowell#p/u/207/MVXj7JvKpHA

Haha - I probably watched that video 15 or so times prior to posting this thread. Sadly though, Ray Mears only spent about a minute of it explaining the differences between the three sizes before moving onto showing some specific usage tips with the SFA. He also was primarily concerned about splitting wood and really show it's chopping/limbing capabilities.

The 19" SFA works well with either one or two hands.

As a primer for good axe work I really reccomend you read Mors Kochanski's Northern Bushcraft. It has an excellent chapter on axecraft that details the proper use of the smaller axe.

The larger axe would be a better more efficient chopper. Especialy if you are looking at having to take down trees of over 8" or more in dia.

For bushcraft and survival use the SFA is a better choice due to the fact that one is generaly only cutting poles for shelters, limbing, and splitting wood and kindling.

Myself I prefer to work a pocket chainsaw up into a bowsaw in the field for crosscutting duties. A lot less work than chopping with less risk of injury.

I'll definitely look into the book - regardless of which I go with, they're both still considered smaller axes. The issue I'm having is that I'm wanting the ax predominantly for chopping, felling/limbing and wood splitting and I believe the longer Scandi would excel at this. 25" is still a fairly manageable length and could be fairly easily strapped to the outside of a pack. I believe if I was just going to carry the ax and a small knife, the SFA would be ideal as it would be better suited for finer tasks while still being capable of two handed chopping when necessary. However, I really can't see myself going anywhere with a two blade setup - I much prefer a setup that includes a small knife, larger blade and a chopper.

I do have the SFA, and I really don't like it all that much. It is a super light, nimble head. While it is super high quality, I want an axe in that size range to hit a little harder. It seems more geared towards limbing and/or finer work.

I don't have any longer GB axes (yet), but I will tell you, once you go about 3" or 4" beyond that 19" handle, it is a whole different ball game. You can get 2 hands on the 19" okay, but with just a little more length you can get a real 2 handed grip and tons more power.

Let us know what you end up with either way. If you end up with the Scandinavian, we need a review There are no good detailed reviews of that one out there.

I have the american felling axe on the way, and I plan to do a lengthy write up on that one, as there is not much info on that one out there either.

B

Well I am currently leaning towards the Scandi right now, so there might be a good chance of a write-up. However, it's pretty much going to be my first experience with a quality axe. With nothing to compare it to except my kukris, a CS trail hawk and a few cheapo hardware hatchets I've used in the past, I'm not too how I'll be able to say.

If you're not too fond of your SFA, perhaps you might be willing to trade it off or let it go for a decent price so I can have something to compare it to?

The 19" handle is for one hand if you want a two handed axe go with the scandinavian. I have both and I like them both.

Jozsef

I'll second this and add that the Scandinavian will do HD work.

Killa, the Small Forest works well with one hand and is a little awkward with two. I will second what Brian said, it is a good axe but a little on the light side, if your primary use will be for chopping go with the Scandinavian.

Thanks guys - this is the sort of personal experience that I was looking for. I'm really wanting an axe that I can get a decent two handed swing with, so I guess I'm pretty set on the Scandi now :thumbup:

 

[killa_concept]

Please forgive me if I sound, off base. I have been wondering what all the heartache is about when I read discussion on axe handle length. The most important part-seems to me is the head. Nevertheless I am not sure what exactly are the differences between the heads of various GB, Wett., and or Husq. axes. ( I mean those of similar weight/design)

I wonder because making an axe handle is not a big problem, or at least it shouldn't be for us.

I was able to find a few threads discussing husqvarna (sp) axes, though I wasn't sure, I did feel confident that the 13 inch would supply me with a good swedish forged head as cheap as I could get. I did not like the handle, which I was pretty sure of when I bought it. 20 minutes or less choppin and splitting a lil hickory for my bbq grill and I was convinced. New handle 17.1/2 inch.

Woops - somehow skipped over this post! Well truthfully, part of the reason I wanted a GB is the name recognition... while wetterlings produces heads of arguably equal quality, I'm honestly willing to pay a tad more for the slightly better finish, 20 year warranty, maker initial and GB name. They're also a bit more consistent in quality from what I've heard (both in the heads and the handles) and the heads are also generally thinner and I prefer that.

As for Husq, I saw this post by cegga and was a little turned off: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7699717&postcount=27

To answer your big question though: While being able to make your own handle is a handy skill, I don't see why one shouldn't consider the stock handle in the decision since it's already part of the cost (unless you're buying JUST the axe head I guess). Hickory is also not as easily available to others as it is for you... while I could shape a handle out of local hardwoods, it wouldn't be as ideal as one made of good hickory. Honestly, I think GB makes some really good handles with a good shape, nice straight grain (from what I've seen), and use a coat of linseed instead of the usual varnish finish which makes for a nicer grip... I see no reason why I shouldn't consider that into my decision.

 

[RedbeAR15]

The 19" handle is for one hand if you want a two handed axe go with the scandinavian. I have both and I like them both.

Jozsef

Never had any experience with anything but the SFA, but two hands on it will chew thru a 10 in. oak like a bever on steriods. I'm 6'3" and took a fallen oak out in less than 12 strokes with the SFA

If you're looking to fell timber, maybe the other one would work better

Depending on your size and stength, the SFA could indeed function as a one handed axe

 

[Briarbrow]

Woops - somehow skipped over this post! Well truthfully, part of the reason I wanted a GB is the name recognition... while wetterlings produces heads of arguably equal quality, I'm honestly willing to pay a tad more for the slightly better finish, 20 year warranty, maker initial and GB name. They're also a bit more consistent in quality from what I've heard (both in the heads and the handles) and the heads are also generally thinner and I prefer that.

As for Husq, I saw this post by cegga and was a little turned off: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7699717&postcount=27

To answer your big question though: While being able to make your own handle is a handy skill, I don't see why one shouldn't consider the stock handle in the decision since it's already part of the cost (unless you're buying JUST the axe head I guess). Hickory is also not as easily available to others as it is for you... while I could shape a handle out of local hardwoods, it wouldn't be as ideal as one made of good hickory. Honestly, I think GB makes some really good handles with a good shape, nice straight grain (from what I've seen), and use a coat of linseed instead of the usual varnish finish which makes for a nicer grip... I see no reason why I shouldn't consider that into my decision.

Yours is a very good point. I meant to say; yeah get the size you are leaning toward.

But if you don't like it you can fix it.

There have been axes all over the world in places where hickory has never grown. My short handle is osage. White oak is a fantastic ax handle wood there's so many more.

I was going to mention that reorienting the growth rings to perpendicular, rather than parallel with the edge can add a bit more power/ whip, but to take advantage of that may need a heavier head than what we are discussing. The main thing you want is wood that breaks in long splintery fibers rather than snap in half.

bottom line GB have the rep choose what you like

 

[g123]

I have the GB Mini, Wildlife, SFA and the Scandi.

All are great! The SFA can work very well for any bushcraft or survival work you will need. If I was to be in the snow or expected to spend along time out in the brush, I would take the Scandi. The Scandi has a thicker head profile so it will not be as good at the bushcraft stuff, although it still works well.

BTW, the Mini is the one I take with me most often. It is an incredable little tool.

Geoff

 

[LMT66]

Here's some pictures of three together that might help size them. Have to say that the edges on all three that I have were shaving sharp when they arrived. Gave all three a light stropping anyway.

The Scandinavian is a great two-hander. It swings easily and bites deep. Despite the added length, it rides nice on the outside of a backpack. I think the proportions of the axe head are appropriate for the handle size and it's balance and weight work well. The curve of the handle is comfy. The poll is generous for pounding. The cheeks are on the thin side.

The Small Forest Axe is great for choking up on with one-hand to clean up or limb and medium chopping duties. You can two-hand it and do some serious cutting but it is a little awkward. For a pack axe, not much you can't do with this despite it's shorter length. As with the Scandinavian, everything is proportioned well.

The Mini-Hatchet is a great little tool. You could almost leave your knife at home if you have this with you. I'm not real fond of the handles curve but it works. The heel of the bit is very useful. Expensive little bugger but I think it's worth having around.

I hit a rock with one but despite that, the edges are all still very sharp after several hard use outings.

 

[Cpl Punishment]

. . .The issue I'm having is that I'm wanting the ax predominantly for chopping, felling/limbing and wood splitting and I believe the longer Scandi would excel at this. 25" is still a fairly manageable length and could be fairly easily strapped to the outside of a pack. . .

For those purposes, IMO, the Scandi is exactly what you want, and I don't think it's THAT hard to choke up on a 24" axe.

 

[NothingCoherent]

I've used axes all my life, and I gotta say the 19" Gransfors SFA is my favourite overall. If I'm only allowed to have one tool, that's the one I'm bringing. I find it's not the best axe for any one job, but it will do -every- job adequately.

I find its length and weight just enough for downing small trees for fire and shelter making, while still having the benefit of a packable size. Don't recommend it for car camping or as a back yard axe, but for hiking / backpacking, it's the best there is.

 

[Ravaillac]

Depends on your needs.
If you need a lot of chopping (forestry work, winter backpacking), you may want an axe with an "edge" on chopping so get a large one.

If you want to stay mobile and chop less, a little less performance vs a little less weight should be considered.

I tend to think that the 19 is already a bit overkill for my needs, so I'd advise the 19 type for general purpose/hiking and nothing heavier unless you forsee intensive work.

The 19 is better used to handed but usable single handed. Very good compromise I think.

 

[Brian Andrews]

To answer your big question though: While being able to make your own handle is a handy skill, I don't see why one shouldn't consider the stock handle in the decision since it's already part of the cost (unless you're buying JUST the axe head I guess). Hickory is also not as easily available to others as it is for you... while I could shape a handle out of local hardwoods, it wouldn't be as ideal as one made of good hickory. Honestly, I think GB makes some really good handles with a good shape, nice straight grain (from what I've seen), and use a coat of linseed instead of the usual varnish finish which makes for a nicer grip... I see no reason why I shouldn't consider that into my decision.

Actually, it goes a bit beyond this, IMO.

The OP was correct. Having a good head is the most important thing. But that does not mean that you would not necessarily put any handle length on a "good" head.

In general, a specific weight of head is good for a variation in handle length. As the handle gets longer, the head gets heavier. You can certainly vary the degree of handle length quite a bit. But, if you put a 26" handle on the 1 1/2 lb SFA head, I don't think you would be verry happy with it at all.

Another example, Kelly used to make a popular felling axe with a 7lb head, and a handle somewhere in the 34" range. I doubt you would want to be putting a 17" handle on that bugger.

The other end of the extreme is the GB mini. I really doubt you would like that head on a 24" handle Just because it is a "good" head. You can only "fix" things to a certain degree, before you will be wanting a different axe head profile or weight.

I guess what I am saying is that with a good head you can vary the handle length to suit your taste. But, unless you are after some particularly different effect, there are going to be some limits to what you want to do.

Don't recommend it for car camping or as a back yard axe, but for hiking / backpacking, it's the best there is.

In terms of a "new" axe, I would agree with you. But, I don't believe it is the best there is. The reason is the "best" is subjective. What are YOU going to do with it. For me, it is definitely not the best.

In terms of quality, it is still the best new one out there at the moment. But, in order to get my own personal "best" axe, I generally look to the old school vintage heads in the shape and weight I want, then match a handle size accordingly.

I was going to mention that reorienting the growth rings to perpendicular, rather than parallel with the edge can add a bit more power/ whip, but to take advantage of that may need a heavier head than what we are discussing.

I am certainly open to new concepts and would love to hear more about this one. But, it does however go against every published written work on axe handling/re-handling that I have ever seen. It also goes against my own personal experience with handle longevity. Do you have any experiences you can share? Type of tool, type of use, etc?

For those to whom this is a new concept, I will explain the rational for wanting vertical grain. In general, this is the direction that wood is going to handle an impact. When the axe face has force imparted on it, the force is put into the wood grain, instead of across it.

Think of the days when you played baseball with a wooded bat. You were always told to put the label up when hitting. That way, when the ball hit, it hit in exactly the manner it would on an axe with vertical grain. If you wanted a surefire way to crack or break your bat, you just turned the label towards the ball, and it was very easy to do.

 

[Cpl Punishment]

Well, he's right, the handle will be more "whippy" with the grain perpendicular to the head, and probably give the head a little more speed on impact.

But you stated the reason they don't do that: it darn near guarantees the handle will fail, quickly.

 

[Briarbrow]

After seeing the heads side by side I may have been a little off by suggesting the ax with 25 inch handle could be replaced with 13 inch. It would be better for one hand designs to stay one handed. If you had the mini and put a 6 inch handle or 20. I don't see how that would violate it's design. I used to have a norlund boy's axe(maybe it 's real name was different) I always felt the handle was either too long for 1 hand or too short for two. Only axe I've ever broken; the eye cracked down the side.

I first read of using the perpendicular orientation in Roy Underhill's bookWoodwright's Companion I consider him to be a reliable, knowledgeable source. In reviewing what he actually says; it is only that he prefers to orient the growth rings "so they run at right angles to its width, bark side to the poll, heart side to the bit", and "if the growth rings are oriented with the direction of swing" there is sometimes a tendency for the handle "to develop an undesirable curve to the side"

I quoted him in case I am misreading/ I have read things before making them say what I want them to and never getting past the prejudice.

He is talking about split from green log, so the grain runs true. While he does mention ash and white oak, there is no special instructions for its selection. What he uses is fast growing, wide growth ring hickory sapwood.



Me has no use for a felling axe. I have felled a few large trees with axes. It is hard, dangerous work. I have saws-easier and safer. So really there just isn't enough force, the helve being somewhat overbuilt to give worry about potential breakage when using rived billets

20 inch is about as long a helve as I need. Most often I don't worry too much if the grain is diagonal, parallel, or perpendicular, as I choose the piece who's split shape most follows the finished shape i want to make.

the S curve of the common commercial fawnsfoot axe handle can(will) violate the growth rings when perpendicular-a somewhat straighter handle would be better.

The most common problem with these is not whether the grain is parallel or diagonal(rift sawn like those pictured above); it's the run out caused by using sawn stock rather than split. That, and most breakage occurs after damage and/or neglect. The shape of a bat; rapidly tapering to small diameter handle is a slightly different sort of grain violation