GEC F&F from a Noob Perspective

J

JA5544

Joined
Apr 1, 2016
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*DISCLAIMER* I am still pretty new to traditionals, and have not seen nearly as many as most of you guys. Also, these observations I’m about to put out are from an extremely small sample size. Im doing this in hopes of sparking some good conversation and hopefully I can learn a few things along the way.

Most everyone raves about GECs fit and finish, and I wanted tell you all what I have experienced so far as I slowly dive into the incredibly addictive world of traditionals.

My first was a 66 Calf Roper in Northfield trim. I bought it a few months ago, and have pretty much carried it exclusively since then. The main blade pull weight feels pretty good, but no matter what I do it still feels a little bit gritty. Just not as smooth as I would like. The secondary blades are both extremely light with very little snap. Also, straight out of the tube there were pretty good scratches on the sheep and pen blades from blade rub. Everything else on the knife is in pretty good shape.

My second was an Osage 29, and I have only been carrying it for a few days. The pulls on all three blades are pretty good to me, with the secondary blades being just a little heavier. The close on the main is maybe a touch lazy. There are a couple of small gaps in the back springs. Two of them you can see a little bit of shadow without holding them up to a light, and then when you hold them up to a light you can really see them. Everything else on this one is good to go.

To wrap this up, I want to say that I thoroughly enjoy both of these knives. They both are keepers. I just pointed out some of the negatives to use as a discussion point. The question is this typical F&F from GEC? If it is, is it worth the premium you pay over other brands?
 
After reading my post it almost seems like I’m just trying to stir the pot, but that is absolutely not what I’m wanting. I enjoy the GECs I own and I will continue to buy them. I do think their F&F is better than most makers, but obviously this can vary from knife to knife. Also, I like the patterns they are putting out.
 
JA5544 said:
After reading my post it almost seems like I’m just trying to stir the pot, but that is absolutely not what I’m wanting. I enjoy the GECs I own and I will continue to buy them. I do think their F&F is better than most makers, but obviously this can vary from knife to knife. Also, I like the patterns they are putting out.
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What are you comparing these knives with? These are Multi-blade, American Made knives with nice natural materials and peened pin construction built in small runs for $100-150-ish.

You can find something factory-made in China that may have closer tolerances but less QC or you could pay much more for a US-made Custom that ticks all your boxes for $500+.

GEC is now one of the only US Cutlers making traditional folding knives that are both high quality and relatively affordable. If you find a particular knife that doesn’t work for you, there is a strong community of collectors who would be happy to buy or trade for your GEC.
 
The only traditionals I have to compare them to are a couple of Case that I own.
 
I have flushed and oiled the pivot. It’s not terrible, but now I have the 29 to compare it to. It’s definitely not as smooth as the 29.
 
If I got a GEC that I could see a gap in the liners without holding it to the light, it would go back to the dealer with a quickness.

When I ordered a Calf Roper (2 actually) I asked the dealer to check it for blade rub. Very difficult to avoid on the 66 from my experience and hearing from others here on the Forum.
I consider minor rub ok, but severe rub is a defect IMO. All the blades on my 66s are fairly snappy.
 
So, something to take into account, there were a lot of reports for the 66 calf roper as you describe, though without the grittiness which can just vary a bit between knives, but the difference in spring tension was noted by several people so my assumption is that, that is just very common, or how it was intended. I have not noticed it on any other knives from GEC, but I only buy the 2-blade models now but have had some other single blade options.

Personally, I think GEC's are a little "over-priced" from the standpoint of a pure user because even case and boker can get the functionality piece right most of the time. But, I think GEC's, on average, tend to be nicer covers and the blade designs are a lot better for using, as in the edge geometry is thin and slicey. The few boker's I've had are great users, but F&F weren't great. Case has been hit or miss and I am currently waiting on a warranty on one that was supposed to have shipped out a couple weeks ago but I haven't seen it and I'm unsure if it was shipped or if I need to start seeing if USPS lost it. Overall though, I think the case's I've had were better values, but I like the materials used more in my GEC's, or some of the stuff from collectorknives, especially the maserins if I want a single blade workhorse.

Summary, GEC is not a value brand but they do offer a fair value with better materials, better designs, and I think better fit and finish overall. Case, boker, and some of the collectorknives exclusives are better values for using but on average they aren't as good fit and finish. They all vary a bit.

P.S. If you ever paid retail for a Queen knife, GEC seems like a value option. I like my queens but they were so hit and miss that I was never willing to pay more than 1/2 what they originally sold for because it was a 50/50 shot if it was good or bad. Their QC was horrible the past few years, but the good ones were pretty good and I really liked their thin D2 blades, especially on the trappers.
 
Having had the benefit of handling many hundreds of GECs, I would say your sample size is way too small and not indicative of their quality. Yes, pull strength and snap are always going to be a question for some, because many like them light and many like them strong, so GEC tries to do both depending on the run. Grittiness can almost always be worked out with flushing/opening/closing, and is rare anyway. Gaps between liners do happen occasionally, but are also rare. Quality of materials, bone dying, grinds and bevels, are all top notch. Swedges and edges are nice and sharp, well defined. A bad GEC (relatively speaking) is as good as a good anything else, and a good GEC is pretty close to a custom for quality at one-third to one-fourth the price. If you want a glorious middle ground on the walk & talk, I highly recommend a #48 Traditional Trapper or a #44 Buffalo Jack.
 
GEC is not perfect, it's not even custom quality despite what you may have heard. Unfortunately, enthusiasm for the brand has lead to unrealistic expectations of what can be expected from a factory knife.

The premium you mentioned pays for gorgeous cover materials, improved QC, and country of manufacture.

The grittiness will go away. Some flushing out of the factory grit, some breaking in will have you good as gold. All of my slipjoints became smoother and better as the tang became polished over time and I tuned the edge just the way I like.
 
I find them to be a good value. They are not perfect, had the back spring break on one. GEC did fix it. Beware, I think a lot of us end up buying too many. I know you have checked the for sale section.
 
It's too bad you chose those two knives as your introduction to Great Eastern Cutlery. Those two have probably the least desirable actions of any of my GEC knives. As far as the Fit and Finish issue on the #29, that is very unusual from my experience. GEC's Fit and Finish is usually top-notch for a production knife. The blade rub on you #66 should be expected with any stockman pattern. Over-all, GEC gets it right way more often than they get it wrong. I buy GEC knives with absolute confidence. Sometimes I'm disappointed in some aspect of the knife, until I realize it's a minor issue and I'm just being picky. Except the #66, those secondary pulls are just horrible.
 
FWIW I didn’t read your original post as an attempt to “stir the pot.” I think you’re being sincere, and your question is a legitimate one.

“Fit and finish” is something of an amorphous term...even though it probably shouldn’t be.

The modern custom knife crowd, I think, uses it correctly (or at least more objectively) referring to the tolerances to which the knife was built and the level of care and attention paid to removing any visible flaws.

As has been said, GECs are factory-made knives built—to a large extent—to a price point. Many of us who grew up carrying knives by companies such as Case and Imperial and Queen appreciate these knives for what they are, and we take great pleasure in owning and carrying and using knives that continue this tradition.

The spear point 15 that’s in my pocket right now is (IMHO) a superb example of the American factory-made folder. It makes me happy to use it. Its fit and finish is quite good compared to most of the knives from the aforementioned companies of my youth. It speaks “quality” when I hold it in my hand.

But if one looks closely it is immediately apparent that this was made by skilled and experienced human hands working quickly. It wouldn’t make it out of the Bose shop like this, and its construction does not display the precision of a Sebenza.

So its “fit and finish” is excellent. And mediocre. ;)
 
I’ll start with saying I don’t have either a 66 or 29. I do have a bunch of other GEC’s as well as some other brands. GEC makes a great knife at a reasonable price point but they aren’t perfect, for me the “imperfections” are part of the allure when it comes to traditional knives. They come with some character, and get more with use.
I’ve got a Case that has perfect walk and talk but a touch of blade play, I’ve got a RoughRider that’s smoother than any GEC I’ve got but the pulls are weak, (a plus for some) and the covers were terrible, but it was cheap. I’ve got Enigma in highly upgraded steel for a traditional but not as smooth and slight gaps for about the same price as a GEC.
I’ve got a couple GEC’s that are near perfect, I don’t carry them any more or less than the others.
There seems to be a few patterns that GEC has darn near perfected and it’s rare to see a dud, #15 and #74 come to mind.
I’ve got a Queen made Trestle Pine that was down right terrible in many ways and should have been sent back but I chose to fix it myself and love it now.
It used to be that you could wait for a few reviews or pick up a knife from late in the run after any kinks got worked out on a new pattern but these days it seems if you want a specific cover you need to jump and take your chances. Having said that, it’s not too much a gamble as most of what GEC puts out is really good. A little grittiness will work itself out, a strong pull will ease up or is easy to adjust. The weak pulls still tend to have good snap. Poor fitting of covers is rare and from what I know their warranty is good.
Enjoy using them, try some others too.
 
I had a dud of a #29 Osage Orange where the blades are very poor spring tension, main blade wouldn't close without help even after flushing and oiling. The coping blade was bad as well and had wobble in the half stop position. It should never have left the factory. I think quality control slipped a bit on this run of 29's

I have a Calf Roper on the way and I'm hoping it will be a good one :thumbsup:

I do have some Case knives that are on par as far as fit a finish and walk and talk is pretty perfect on those as well.

Still like the GEC's though.
 
I have both the 29 and three 66s. The 29’s quality is top notch. I can find no flaws in it. The 66 is probably my favorite pattern from GEC. My Northfield shows a small area of rub on the sheepfoot but nothing major.

The actions do smooth out over time and use and with a good flushing with mineral oil. I was initially bothered by the light pulls on the Calf Roper secondaries. I contacted GEC and they said those are designed that way. Then my fingernails began to deteriorate from my medical treatments and those light pulls became an attribute.

I think you have two excellent GEC knives that will serve you well. Thanks for posting. I’m no expert and I learn something new here every day.
 
JA5544, As another relative noobie to GEC, I too have succumbed to the hype and then learned to modify my expectations. GEC produces great factory knives that are very consistent in quality - may be the best in that regard - using some of the best materials but, at the end of the day, they are a factory knife and there is a range to their QC. Now, I would argue their range of acceptable is much smaller than other factory makers and that's the advantage of buying GEC. You know you are getting somewhere between very good and excellent. I feel safe mail ordering GEC knives whereas Case, for example, I would want to inspect in person only.

All that said, I had some issues with my new 29s. The first one was not so impressive from a blade centering perspective and, like you, there may be the slightest of gaps. Actually, I'm not 100% certain it is a gap. It could be polishing compound in the joint or just a hint of the dark heat treating still showing. I feel like it has gone away the more I work the knife. I ordered a second from a different dealer just for comparison. (My original dealer was sold out.) The second knife had much better centering but the secondary blad slightly rubbed against the tang of the primary. It also had too much chatter along the top of the handle for my taste. You could see and feel grinder swirls there. No gaps at all. In the end, I kept the original knife as the scale chatter was something I could not live with. If I really want perfect blade centering on the first I could send it back to GEC and have them correct it.

BUT, look at what I got with that 29. Pinned shield. 99% + gap free. Perfectly matched bone handles in color, jigging, thickness, and cut. Everything perfectly symmetrical. A crisply executed crease at the hump in the spine almost perfectly perpendicular to the sides. Great steel for an edge. Polished inside and out. Buffing lines straight up and down on the blades. Nice pull. Nice snap. On and on and on... That's a heck of a knife for $120.
 
I feel the OP has a valid standpoint and is in no way pot stirring. No brand should be beyond critique otherwise irrational worship sets in ;)

Most of my experiences with GEC build quality has been very positive, up to and beyond expectations, I feel I can buy with confidence, this is doubly important for me as I am not an American nor do I live in the USA- so returning stuff is not a welcome prospect. GEC's all steel knives are particularly well made, gap free and play free. In terms of action it will be variable from pattern to pattern, understandably so. The single spring patterns 38,33,68,13 that I have are all really well assembled with no blade rub, the same is largely true for 3 blade patterns as well, GEC usually do a very good job on backspring finish and flush open/close. Dye jobs are very good, jigging a bit more pedestrian lately...some eye catching Acrylics which I like and a wide variety of patterns to choose from.

Minuses for me is the dearth of stainless or other steel choices, still a lot of ugly sink-hole centre pins, lot of people don't seem to mind them but to my eye it really spoils the quality aspect. CASE and Queen do/did a superior job with pins, Böker too. GEC bone seems to me to be more susceptible to cracking too which is not a sign of durability- might just be my bad luck? Their small knives are not really satisfying to me, too toy like so it's a design/execution flaw. They really need to do a decent compact Stockman with low riding Sheepfoot, a good Penknife/Sleeveboard but these are admittedly production questions not F&F .

I have a sizeable and fairly comprehensive range of GECs, many I'm very struck by, but oddly enough I carry a French knife of some kind, a CASE, Queen, Winchester BB much more frequently, not because of F&F but out of pocketability-if such a word exists :D

Thanks, Will
 
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