GEC handles?

[BladeRust]

I just recently purchased a GEC 142116 Barlow sfo ppp and one of only 56 made. It’s supposed the have the yellow heart wood for the handle scales but someone changed them, and did a really nice job btw, to a black jigged bone. First question is does anyone know if GEC would put the original handle scales back on for a fee and second does it even matter if I change them? Thanks

 

[timberweasel]

Swapping scales on a pinned traditional can be a tricky bit o' business. Personally, I wouldn't bother unless the current scales are damaged. Your knife is no longer 'original from factory' either way.

I can't see GEC wanting to do a scale swap unless it's under warranty work, but it wouldn't hurt to make a phone call or send an e-mail and ask them directly.

Good luck, OP!

 

[BladeRust]

It sucks that someone did that but it’s still a great knife and I’m glad I got it.

 

[Planterz]

Doing a handle "swap" on a knife like that isn't exactly a simple thing. It's not like you're just unscrewing a few fasteners, swapping some parts, then putting it back together. The pins have to be tapped or possibly drilled out and require replacing, the liners might get damaged as well and might require replacing, and it's very possible that the original scales might not survive. Definitely no longer covered by warranty, and I highly doubt GEC will do anything for you, even for a fee. Of course, there's (obviously) people that you could commission to put the handles of your choice, but the cost involved (in addition to what you've already paid) might not be worth it to you - at that point you might as well just get a 2nd knife with the handles you want.

 

[BladeRust]

I actually like the handle scales that where put on the knife. It looks really sharp. I was just thinking if I ever wanted to trade or sell it if the original scales not being on it would effect it.

 

[traumkommode]

I actually like the handle scales that where put on the knife. It looks really sharp. I was just thinking if I ever wanted to trade or sell it if the original scales not being on it would effect it.

In most cases a re-covered slip joint is worth less than it would be with them original handles. GEC isn't going to re-cover a re-covered knife. You could try getting ahold of some of that same species of wood and then have one of the custom workers over in the traditional forum re-cover it with that, but it won't improve its value.

 

[eveled]

It’s collectors value is gone with its originality. You can’t make it original again. Use it and enjoy it. It sounds like a nice knife.

 

[afishhunter]

I can't see GEC wanting to do a scale swap unless it's under warranty work, but it wouldn't hurt to make a phone call or send an e-mail and ask them directly

This.
GEC won't recover it to the original, and since (a) You are not the orginal buyer, and (b) Someone other than GEC recovered it/worked on it, the knife is no longer under warranty, anyway.

EDIT:
FWIW, GEC Collectors don't seem to care very much if the knife has been recovered, or if a secondary blade has been removed.
Those two modifications seem to be the most popular, from what I've seen in the various GEC threads over in Traditionals..

FYI: GEC Number Definition: First 2 numbers are the pattern number. 3rd number is main blade profile/type. 4th number is the original number of blades. Last two numbers are the year it was made.

EDIT #2: The "1 of 56" may be only be "1 of 56" with that handle material that were Seraliazed/Numbered. Not necessarally the number of SFO knives for that order.
I have a 852211Harness Jack, Number "24 of 35" with Burnt Stag covers.
They also made almost two hundred 852211's with burnt stag covers that weren't numbered.

 

[knarfeng]

I just recently purchased a GEC 142116 Barlow sfo ppp and one of only 56 made. It’s supposed the have the yellow heart wood for the handle scales but someone changed them, and did a really nice job btw, to a black jigged bone. First question is does anyone know if GEC would put the original handle scales back on for a fee and second does it even matter if I change them? Thanks

GEC is unlikely to have a spare set of the original cover material. They don't do "stock". Every run they do is unique.

If they did have such a set, they would be unlikely to want to expend their scarce resources replacing covers on a non-warranty issue. It takes considerable skill to do such a replacement. GEC does not keep a "repair staff". Anybody who worked on the knife would have to be taken off the "production line." The amount of money they would have to charge to make it worth their time would be huge. Because you would be preventing a highly skilled craftsman from his primary function of producing knives.

If the current covers are well done, I'd leave it alone.

 

[Quiet]

This.
GEC won't recover it to the original, and since (a) You are not the orginal buyer, and (b) Someone other than GEC recovered it/worked on it, the knife is no longer under warranty, anyway.

EDIT:
FWIW, GEC Collectors don't seem to care very much if the knife has been recovered, or if a secondary blade has been removed.
Those two modifications seem to be the most popular, from what I've seen in the various GEC threads over in Traditionals..

FYI: GEC Number Definition: First 2 numbers are the pattern number. 3rd number is main blade profile/type. 4th number is the original number of blades. Last two numbers are the year it was made.

EDIT #2: The "1 of 56" may be only be "1 of 56" with that handle material that were Seraliazed/Numbered. Not necessarally the number of SFO knives for that order.
I have a 852211Harness Jack, Number "24 of 35" with Burnt Stag covers.
They also made almost two hundred 852211's with burnt stag covers that weren't numbered.

This is false. Most GEC collectors will most definitely care if a knife has been modified, especially if it's a rare knife.

 

[afishhunter]

This is false. Most GEC collectors will most definitely care if a knife has been modified, especially if it's a rare knife.

First question in regards to the second half of your statement:

What GEC knife isn't rare?

Considering the fact that GEC only makes small runs of each knife, never enough to meet the demand.*
Any additional run of any given pattern is usually years apart, (when was the last run of 48 Whalers or 36 Sunfish? How many more years - if ever - before there is another run?) Also, According to GEC subsequent runs "MUST" have a noticable from a distance difference form any previousrun; be it different cover materials, different blade or blade combination, different bolsters, (pinched/lined/engraved or plain, or Brass, German Silver, Pewter, or some other material, or no bolster (shadow) or one bolster (bare head), or whatever the itty bitty edge bolsters are called,) that the previous runs didn't have.

*Note that some (most?) runs of popular patterns (like the Barlow/Beerlow/Beer Scout and the Barlow with a sausage fork secondary), sell out in under one minute, to less than three minutes when "released". It isn't just BFmembers that snatch them up.
How many GEC Fanatics (A.K.A. "Fans") here on BF have said in threads they have quit chaising GEC's because it is nigh on impossible to get one at retail when it is released, and they don't want to spend a premium for one on eBay or some other site?
More than "a few".

Second Question, regarding the first half of your statement:

If what you say is true; "Most GEC Collectors will care if a knife has been modified." then why are so many modified with different covers (or blade deletes "to make it more pocketable/pocket friendly..." Yeah ... o.k. ... riiiight ... like 0.0625 inch/1.5875 mm/ 1/16 inch is really going to make a noticable difference in the your pocket ...)

Taking into consideration the small number of knives made in each run, some patterns/runs may have fully 25 to 50 percent or more modified by people who claim to be "collectors" and "concerned about the resale value", that post on Blade Forums alone.
Who knows how many owned by people who are not members of Blade Forums are modified?

If collectors were worred about wrong covers or the incorrect number of blades, or actual use and sharpening, affecting the value or "collectability", they sure as heck wouldn't modify or use them.
They would go directly into the safe until sold, possibly never coming out of the tube while they own it.

 

[BladeRust]

Nuff said!

 

[Quiet]

First question in regards to the second half of your statement:

What GEC knife isn't rare?

Considering the fact that GEC only makes small runs of each knife, never enough to meet the demand.*
Any additional run of any given pattern is usually years apart, (when was the last run of 48 Whalers or 36 Sunfish? How many more years - if ever - before there is another run?) Also, According to GEC subsequent runs "MUST" have a noticable from a distance difference form any previousrun; be it different cover materials, different blade or blade combination, different bolsters, (pinched/lined/engraved or plain, or Brass, German Silver, Pewter, or some other material, or no bolster (shadow) or one bolster (bare head), or whatever the itty bitty edge bolsters are called,) that the previous runs didn't have.

*Note that some (most?) runs of popular patterns (like the Barlow/Beerlow/Beer Scout and the Barlow with a sausage fork secondary), sell out in under one minute, to less than three minutes when "released". It isn't just BFmembers that snatch them up.
How many GEC Fanatics (A.K.A. "Fans") here on BF have said in threads they have quit chaising GEC's because it is nigh on impossible to get one at retail when it is released, and they don't want to spend a premium for one on eBay or some other site?
More than "a few".

Second Question, regarding the first half of your statement:

If what you say is true; "Most GEC Collectors will care if a knife has been modified." then why are so many modified with different covers (or blade deletes "to make it more pocketable/pocket friendly..." Yeah ... o.k. ... riiiight ... like 0.0625 inch/1.5875 mm/ 1/16 inch is really going to make a noticable difference in the your pocket ...)

Taking into consideration the small number of knives made in each run, some patterns/runs may have fully 25 to 50 percent or more modified by people who claim to be "collectors" and "concerned about the resale value", that post on Blade Forums alone.
Who knows how many owned by people who are not members of Blade Forums are modified?

If collectors were worred about wrong covers or the incorrect number of blades, or actual use and sharpening, affecting the value or "collectability", they sure as heck wouldn't modify or use them.
They would go directly into the safe until sold, possibly never coming out of the tube while they own it.

Everything you've just said here is nonsense (a surprise to no one). Tell me, are you a GEC collector? If not, what makes you feel you are able to speak for us? How many rare GEC recovers have you bought? What's your name, so I can check if you're a member of both Facebook GEC pages (like me)?

It's ok, by the way, these were rhetorical questions, I know you're not a GEC collector, and everything you've said here is made up because you not only don't collect GECs, you tend to make denigrating comments about them all the time. Good work. You don't speak for us, thanks.

 

[afishhunter]

Everything you've just said here is nonsense (a surprise to no one). Tell me, are you a GEC collector? If not, what makes you feel you are able to speak for us? How many rare GEC recovers have you bought? What's your name, so I can check if you're a member of both Facebook GEC pages (like me)?

It's ok, by the way, these were rhetorical questions, I know you're not a GEC collector, and everything you've said here is made up because you not only don't collect GECs, you tend to make denigrating comments about them all the time. Good work. You don't speak for us, thanks.

So tell me ... what GEC made in the last 5 or 6 years was made in a quantity to meet demand? (E.G.: Widely available; Everyone that wanted one could get it, even weeks or months after it was released, not just the day it was released.)

I don''t make "degenerative" statements about GEC. I admit they make a good knife. At least the three I've had seemed good. Two were not for me: a 06 and a 61(?) "half congress".
The 06 was way to small. I don't like how a congress feels in hand. I gave them away. (gave - not "sold")
The 85 Harness Jack I have gets carried, has been sharpened, and has a patina. Hence zero "collector" value. Which is fine with me. I'm not a collector. I've never sold a knife in my life.
Also, this knife was a gift, so will never be sold. (The 61 was also a gift. I "won" the 06 in a GAW that someone wanted the knife sent to me if he won. Either way, neither would ever be sold by me.)

In the "Lets Talk GEC" thread over in traditionals, there are people complaining about the knives being sold out with-in 3 minutes or less. In some cases, under a minute.
They are also saying they have quit chasing GEC's.

Rehtorical or not, you are correct. I am not a "collector" of GEC (or any other brand). GEC are way outside my budget. So is a new Case, for that matter. So what? Just leaves more for those who can afford them

I mentioned the 48 Whaler, because that is a pattern I like. Cheapest I've seen for one on the secondary market is $350.
For $10 to $15 I can get a Rough Ryder or Marbles Sunfish. Why should I spend $350 for one? (Oh, the Case sunfish are about he same price on the secdond hand market as the GEC, so a used Case is not an option, either.)

The Barlow is historically an inexpensive "working man" knife. not a $100 plus "luxury" knife.
If I want another new Barlow (unlikely as I have around 7 of them, (including USA Imperial, Imperial Ireland, and Ulster) I'll get a sub $10 Rough Ryder or sub $15 Marbles.
Is the RR or Marbles as "good" as e GEC? Probably not. However, it will most likely cut just as well, and will probably last more years than I have left on this rock.

You want to collect GEC? Great! More power to you! Just remember ... when the one you want is sold out, it weren't me that bought the last one at that dealer before you could click "buy".

 

[Quiet]

So tell me ... what GEC made in the last 5 or 6 years was made in a quantity to meet demand? (E.G.: Widely available; Everyone that wanted one could get it, even weeks or months after it was released, not just the day it was released.)

I don''t make "degenerative" statements about GEC. I admit they make a good knife. At least the three I've had seemed good. Two were not for me: a 06 and a 61(?) "half congress".
The 06 was way to small. I don't like how a congress feels in hand. I gave them away. (gave - not "sold")
The 85 Harness Jack I have gets carried, has been sharpened, and has a patina. Hence zero "collector" value. Which is fine with me. I'm not a collector. I've never sold a knife in my life.
Also, this knife was a gift, so will never be sold. (The 61 was also a gift. I "won" the 06 in a GAW that someone wanted the knife sent to me if he won. Either way, neither would ever be sold by me.)

In the "Lets Talk GEC" thread over in traditionals, there are people complaining about the knives being sold out with-in 3 minutes or less. In some cases, under a minute.
They are also saying they have quit chasing GEC's.

Rehtorical or not, you are correct. I am not a "collector" of GEC (or any other brand). GEC are way outside my budget. So is a new Case, for that matter. So what? Just leaves more for those who can afford them

I mentioned the 48 Whaler, because that is a pattern I like. Cheapest I've seen for one on the secondary market is $350.
For $10 to $15 I can get a Rough Ryder or Marbles Sunfish. Why should I spend $350 for one? (Oh, the Case sunfish are about he same price on the secdond hand market as the GEC, so a used Case is not an option, either.)

The Barlow is historically an inexpensive "working man" knife. not a $100 plus "luxury" knife.
If I want another new Barlow (unlikely as I have around 7 of them, (including USA Imperial, Imperial Ireland, and Ulster) I'll get a sub $10 Rough Ryder or sub $15 Marbles.
Is the RR or Marbles as "good" as e GEC? Probably not. However, it will most likely cut just as well, and will probably last more years than I have left on this rock.

You want to collect GEC? Great! More power to you! Just remember ... when the one you want is sold out, it weren't me that bought the last one at that dealer before you could click "buy".

None of this entire wharblgarble has anything to do with what I just said. You attempted to speak for GEC collectors when:

- You aren't one.
- You don't like GECs because they cost money
- You have a history of making denigrating comments on the Porch (usually bringing up cost, and how you can't afford them)
- Oh look, you're proving my point by bringing up Rough Ryders (as you usually do).

So, given that, when you come in and attempt to speak for GEC collectors, be ready to be called on it, so everyone else understands the negative bias you speak from.

 

[knarfeng]

Get a room. Or take it to W&C.

 

[timberweasel]

I actually like the handle scales that where put on the knife. It looks really sharp. I was just thinking if I ever wanted to trade or sell it if the original scales not being on it would effect it.

Would you be able to post a pic of your knife? I wanna see!

 

[Planterz]

First question in regards to the second half of your statement:

What GEC knife isn't rare?

Considering the fact that GEC only makes small runs of each knife, never enough to meet the demand.*
Any additional run of any given pattern is usually years apart, (when was the last run of 48 Whalers or 36 Sunfish? How many more years - if ever - before there is another run?) Also, According to GEC subsequent runs "MUST" have a noticable from a distance difference form any previousrun; be it different cover materials, different blade or blade combination, different bolsters, (pinched/lined/engraved or plain, or Brass, German Silver, Pewter, or some other material, or no bolster (shadow) or one bolster (bare head), or whatever the itty bitty edge bolsters are called,) that the previous runs didn't have.

*Note that some (most?) runs of popular patterns (like the Barlow/Beerlow/Beer Scout and the Barlow with a sausage fork secondary), sell out in under one minute, to less than three minutes when "released". It isn't just BFmembers that snatch them up.
How many GEC Fanatics (A.K.A. "Fans") here on BF have said in threads they have quit chaising GEC's because it is nigh on impossible to get one at retail when it is released, and they don't want to spend a premium for one on eBay or some other site?
More than "a few".

Second Question, regarding the first half of your statement:

If what you say is true; "Most GEC Collectors will care if a knife has been modified." then why are so many modified with different covers (or blade deletes "to make it more pocketable/pocket friendly..." Yeah ... o.k. ... riiiight ... like 0.0625 inch/1.5875 mm/ 1/16 inch is really going to make a noticable difference in the your pocket ...)

Taking into consideration the small number of knives made in each run, some patterns/runs may have fully 25 to 50 percent or more modified by people who claim to be "collectors" and "concerned about the resale value", that post on Blade Forums alone.
Who knows how many owned by people who are not members of Blade Forums are modified?

If collectors were worred about wrong covers or the incorrect number of blades, or actual use and sharpening, affecting the value or "collectability", they sure as heck wouldn't modify or use them.
They would go directly into the safe until sold, possibly never coming out of the tube while they own it.

None of this makes any sense.

The number of GECs that get modified is absolutely nowhere near 25-50%.

A collector will definitely care about modifications. There's different kinds of "collectors", of course, but there's unquestionably collectors who will only want unused, undamaged, and unmodified knives. Even someone who calls themself a collector and uses knives in their collection will care because they'd be unwlling to pay too much for a modified knife, especially if the quality of work is in question. Regardless, modifications will absolutely have impact on the value.

Deleting a layer can make a quite noticeable difference in how a knife carries in the pocket and feels in the hand. If it didn't, people wouldn't do it.

The majority of people that would spend the time, or spend the money to commission a significant modification like a blade delete or different handles will do so for very personal reasons, and thus resale value and/or ease of resale wouldn't be a consideration. It's never done willy nilly on a whim, especially on a rarer knife, because "collectors don't seem to care".

 

[r8shell]

I actually like the handle scales that where put on the knife. It looks really sharp. I was just thinking if I ever wanted to trade or sell it if the original scales not being on it would effect it.

Yes, the resale value will be affected. There are lots of collectors who want mint examples, and replacing the modified scales with original material won't make the knife new again.

That doesn't mean the knife has zero value. You might be able to break even on your purchase if you ever wanted to sell or trade it.

So, if you buy a knife as an investment, expecting it to increase in collector value, you need to do more research before purchasing. If you buy a knife because you like it and want to use it, and hope it will retain its value for the most part: you can't really go wrong with a GEC, modified or not.

 

[BladeRust]

My goal is to keep it and not sell it. This knife is one I really like and just happens to be one that’s more desirable. I may have paid up a little to get it but sometimes that happens especially when there’s only some many out there to be had. I don’t shelf queen my knives, I use them and not abuse them. It’s a keeper for sure.