GEC improvements from 2006 to 2012?

fatcorgi

fatcorgi

Joined
Nov 12, 2011
Messages
658
I was wondering, since GEC has only been in operation for 6 years or thereabouts, has the quality of their fit and finish always been consistently excellent, or has it made a lot of improvements? The thought occurred to me when reading about the new 42 trader, which a few people have described as having a level of perfection not seen before. The only other thing I've heard until now is that the pulls on some of their knives have been relaxed a little over the years. I'd be interested to hear from someone who has a major collection of GECs who may have sensed a general improvement (or not). I know the cutlers there were already very experienced when they began, but it would be interesting to see if their mastery has changed enough over the years to be noticeable in subtle details.

Its relevant for deciding whether to go for newer models in preference to similar older models e.g. the newer #79 whittler vs. the older #54 (?) cigar whittler.
 
The two major areas of improvement I have seen over the years are the lighter, smoother pulls and the sharpness of their blades. 2009 seems to be when these improvements started to be seen. In general, they seem to be pretty tuned in to what we BladeForumites are saying about their knives, and continually trying to improve both their designs and their workmanship.
 
They did improve their honing one fine day a while back. And their bone improved drastically when they quit buying it and started making it in-house. But the backsprings have always been a love/hate relationship; and although newer patterns seem to be lighter, the #23 they released last week seems just as tight as they did 5 years ago to me.

By now, I can tell when someone new is getting trained on a certain station - it is that consistent. If I see something that looks a tiny bit different I know someone is learning a new machine.

I didn't notice the #42 being any better in finish than the #72 - but let's be honest the #42 was a pattern very similar to the mountain man which has years of success behind it. So to answer your question from my perspective: as long as you keep the same group of folks (which GEC has for the most part) there will always be small incremental improvements over time. But anybody that didn't know any difference already would not be able to order a table full of GEC knives by their introduction date.
 
Thanks for popping in and sharing your thoughts Mike. They're especially valuable given the sheer volume of GEC knives you are exposed to. I have another question that I hope you can answer. How do current GECs compare to the Remingtons of pre-WWII fame?

- Christian
 
kamagong said:
Thanks for popping in and sharing your thoughts Mike. They're especially valuable given the sheer volume of GEC knives you are exposed to. I have another question that I hope you can answer. How do current GECs compare to the Remingtons of pre-WWII fame?

- Christian
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That may get a little political; but I will give my opinion...

Knives were made as tools up until 40 years ago. As such, being perfectly functional was in no way related to have an artistic fit and finish. There were several makes of knives 80 years ago that if they had spent the advertising money Case did, would be much wider appreciated today. Although I am not an antique knife aficionado I have handled many. They had gaps in the backsprings, blades that didn't fall dead center every time, rubs, gaps between bolsters/slabs and shields/slabs, overspun pins, etc. etc. Not every one, but older Case, Remington, Winchester, HSB, Cattaraugus, etc. were tools and became famous for that - not their fit & finish. They would probably not be nearly as popular today with a market that receives each purchase with white gloves and a magnifying glass for inspection (I am one).

GEC is having to compete for their share of business in a market that is much more critical. I don't know what the adjusted "cost" of a pocket knife is now compared to 80 years ago, but they probably cost more (adjusted) today and we have a right to set the criteria by which we feed our habit.

Having said all that - I think GEC is making, in general, the best work knife ever presented to the general consumer in it's value target. It is satisfying both the hard core user market and the hard core collector market; which is a daunting task.

BTW, I just had two Remington 1123 models that had backsprings that make GEC's #23 feel like it has bearings....
 
knifeswapper said:
Having said all that - I think GEC is making, in general, the best work knife ever presented to the general consumer in it's value target. It is satisfying both the hard core user market and the hard core collector market; which is a daunting task.
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I agree, GEC seems to have hit a sweet spot where their knives appeal both to those who want a user of the highest quality as well as to today's discrimating collectors. It's a nigh impossible task, and the only other manufacturer I can think of that has been able to pull that off is Case with their annual Tony Bose collaborations. The difference being that the Case/Bose knives are considerably more expensive than GECs.

The GEC #73 is IMO the finest production single blade slipjoint being made today. The one you sold me a few months back has quickly become a favorite.

dsc0135vl.jpg


Is it perfect? Of course not, I don't expect anything made by the hand of man to achieve perfection. But it oozes quality. And even as recently as ten years ago you couldn't buy a slipjoint with stag scales and a 1095 blade for any price, unless you went custom.

knifeswapper said:
BTW, I just had two Remington 1123 models that had backsprings that make GEC's #23 feel like it has bearings....
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I saw those, they were beauties!
 
Glad to hear from Mike on this one. He would know.

One thing I can say is even before the new "honing process" the edges still came nice and even and well executed on my examples. So it wasn't even a big deal.

I like all my knives from all the years.

Possibly my favorite reason that GEC is a small operation is that the dealers usually have a small stock and they are kind enough to check out a knife before shipping it to you. If you may be worried about strong springs you can call and ask before purchasing.

Kevin
 
knifeswapper said:
That may get a little political; but I will give my opinion...

Knives were made as tools up until 40 years ago. As such, being perfectly functional was in no way related to have an artistic fit and finish. There were several makes of knives 80 years ago that if they had spent the advertising money Case did, would be much wider appreciated today. Although I am not an antique knife aficionado I have handled many. They had gaps in the backsprings, blades that didn't fall dead center every time, rubs, gaps between bolsters/slabs and shields/slabs, overspun pins, etc. etc. Not every one, but older Case, Remington, Winchester, HSB, Cattaraugus, etc. were tools and became famous for that - not their fit & finish. They would probably not be nearly as popular today with a market that receives each purchase with white gloves and a magnifying glass for inspection (I am one).

GEC is having to compete for their share of business in a market that is much more critical. I don't know what the adjusted "cost" of a pocket knife is now compared to 80 years ago, but they probably cost more (adjusted) today and we have a right to set the criteria by which we feed our habit.

Having said all that - I think GEC is making, in general, the best work knife ever presented to the general consumer in it's value target. It is satisfying both the hard core user market and the hard core collector market; which is a daunting task.

BTW, I just had two Remington 1123 models that had backsprings that make GEC's #23 feel like it has bearings....
Click to expand...

Mike, Thanks for your well thought out, and equally well presented opinion.
 
I will disagree with Mike (a dangerous thing!) about their bone, though. I think it is a wash from sourced (2006-2008) to in-house (2009-current).

Some of the newer bone is very nice, and the coloring is probably more consistant. But some of the older bone was terrific too, primarily the horsecuts, the amber, green and blue stag bones, and the original appaloosa smooth bone. Plenty to like from both eras of bone, IMO.
 
Quality has been reliable from the start, other improvements have been introducing smaller patterns and some bold and controversial knives too. By keeping the runs small, they can possibly ensure more consistent quality.

I just wish they would send out more 440c knives and put nickel scales(liners) on them! Future improvement, hint...
 
willgoy said:
Quality has been reliable from the start, other improvements have been introducing smaller patterns and some bold and controversial knives too. By keeping the runs small, they can possibly ensure more consistent quality.

I just wish they would send out more 440c knives and put nickel scales(liners) on them! Future improvement, hint...
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I would like to see more all steel construction.
 
I have a decent assortment of minty old Remingtons, among others, and one area where GEC can't touch the oldies is in their polished blade finishes. The crocus "black" polish found on most premium Golden Age knives is as mirror-bright and clean as a plate of glass. Conversely, GEC's premium "Northfield" polish is full of fine scratches and dull areas at the best of times.

I've said it before, but it bears repeating: GEC should put all of their premium polishing efforts for each "Northfield" knife into the mark side of the master blade, and leave all the other blade surfaces in satin, as was done so successfully for well over a century. Their knives would be more traditionally authentic, and a lot more aesthetically pleasing, IMO. I'd rather have one '10' polished surface than several sketchy '5's spread over all the blades. I can't think of a single current traditional knife manufacturer who finishes their blades like they used to, but it's about time for someone to take up the gantlet.

In terms of fit and finish, my experience is that, at their best, the old Remingtons and GEC are more or less on par, the exception being that GEC's high level of F 'n' F is far more consistent than Remington achieved. However, it should be noted that, based on the number of filled orders at the time, the latter are known to have cranked out something like 10,000 knives per day at their peak in the early 1930s.
 
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Some of the 2006 knives I have, have issues that I dont see anymore. A few with sloppy 1/2 stops, some very dull,some of their crosscut jigging was poorly done i think as well. I think that their jigging seems to constantly be improving. I credit GEC with listening to the complaints that were out there on some of the early knives, and doing something about it. ( I have around 350 GEC's , and I think they are better now,then on the early knives.)
 
I don't have a big collection at all. Just a few (7 or so) GEC's. I also bought one to give to my father for Christmas a while back. Two are the all steel models (Barlow and Sunfish)

All are very pleasing to me.

None of the pulls are too hard (even the #23's and #73's Scharade branded beauties).

They are too hard for some. I handed one to my friend, a well broken in #73 that I would rate as about a 5-6 right now, and he bent his nail back and told me he could not open it. I would have rated it as about a 7-8 when it came new.

No un-eaven edges in the bunch. There are different years (2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, and 2011 I believe).

All great stuff!
 
Less speckles of light and nicer fitting/centering as the years progress. It also depends on the brand. I'd say Tidioute 2012 is slightly better than Northfield 2010. And the one Great Eastern 2010 I had was freaking flawless.
The oldest GEC I own is one they did for Shrade in 2007. It has the most light between the liners and the blades sit a little "inward" instead of being centered in the channel. Leaving some rub on both blades. Still has a lot of great user potential, though.
 
its really interesting to hear that you can mark subtle differences when someone is in training on a new machine. Are the GEC cutlers all specialists in just one particular area, or are they allrounders who can do every stage of the building process?
 
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