GEC Ivory off the menu .

meako

meako

Gold Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2006
Messages
10,126
I have dithered for a good while over the Ivory watch pocket sunfish.
Went ahead and ordered one. Checked out the customs info which I thought would be OK
with an accompanying document staing the pre CITES status of the ivory used by GEC.
Much to my horror and dismay the vendor emailed with bad news that he doesn't send any ivory outside the US.
Too risky even with paperwork. What a shame. Thanks Greg for replying so promptly. He was genuinely apologetic.
Not his fault . I guess I wasn't meant to have one .So take note Aussies & other non CONUS comrades- ivory is off the menu.
I showed 'em though.
I've got a tractor green dogleg trapper and an American Elk toothpick on way.Thats 2 for the price of one in my book.
which just goes to show -
you can't keep a good knifehead down.
 
Unfortunately, this does not happen just for ivory...other handle materials are subject to the same kind of regulations, so many US retailers do not sell outside the US.
Honestly, I have no idea of the reasons behind this sort of limitation, but I understand those vendors who don't want to get into trouble. Still, for us overseas buyers, it's another barbed wire fence.

Fausto
:cool:
 
I'm sorry to hear that Meako but at least the two you're getting are sure to be keepers!!

Fausto is right that other materials are also in question like animal parts, Ebony and Cocobolo/Rosewood due to some species being endangered. From what I understand/remember is that if a dealer is caught selling outside of the US with one of these, not only is it confiscated/dealer fined (multiple fines per knife) but they go back through several years of transactions and then fine for each one. 1 problem shipment can put a dealer out of business.

Besides the above, I thought all of the pre-ban ivory being sold in the US is non-export.
 
I was blissfully unaware of the "unofficial ban"on other animal products such as bone until Greg mentioned it.
Not sure about that one .Possibly because of parasites or diseases.
I was also disturbed to read somewhere about the recommencement of ivory imports to China. How does that work?
I totally agree its not worth the risk. How long until Brazilian cattle bone becomes the new ivory?
Seems like officialdom will strangle the life out of small business before it realises why it was put there in the first place.
 
meako said:
I was blissfully unaware of the "unofficial ban"on other animal products such as bone until Greg mentioned it.
Not sure about that one .Possibly because of parasites or diseases.
I was also disturbed to read somewhere about the recommencement of ivory imports to China. How does that work?
I totally agree its not worth the risk. How long until Brazilian cattle bone becomes the new ivory?
Seems like officialdom will strangle the life out of small business before it realises why it was put there in the first place.
Click to expand...

The "big deal" about bone is you can't verify what animal it came from. Could have been an endangered species. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: Stupid, isn't it?
 
I think the origin of bone can be identified.
That would be a matter for the manufacturer to sort out with the supplier.
The supplier should be able to provide the proof needed.
I don't think the idea of preserving endangered animals and plants is stupid.
The manner in which it is policed can be with particular reference to dealers being unable to trade
in overseas markets. One GEC vendor will not sell any knives overseas. Talk about being put behind the 8 ball.
 
Well, atleast when making most acrylics you're not using animal products and micarta is good too...
 
don't get me wrong.
i would not like an elephant killed for the purpose of making knife handles.
however if it was dead already for a hundred years i wouldn't mind.
To me it speaks of history(good and bad).
mainly it would be collectable and therefore increase in value.
theres a lot of junk still being made made of ivory.
i'm not sure anymore maybe its bad thing.
the word quality springs to mind.
 
Anything from a non-domesticated animal falls under the jurisdiction of Fish and Wildlife. I doesn't matter if the animal was killed a thousand years ago or if the stag itself has already been imported from a foreign country. They have the right to search and seize right alongside customs on inbound and outbound parcels. If you document the contents, then it is a $91 inspection fee for each package containing such products along with actual registration and license to ship said products. If you do not document the contents, that is the 4th fine they will levy against you for shipping the product. Regardless of all permits and license required, the $91 per package is generally enough to help international customers make the decision of whether it is worthwhile or not. You may sneak it past them for a while, but when they find it, they have the legal right to go back as far as they see fit and charge you the fees and fines for every package you have ever sent internationally. And since you tried to sneak the latest one past, it is up to you to prove that every other package was not the same. So, anyone taking their chances on stag, horn, pearl, abalone, etc. etc. is just pushing fate. All it takes is for one malicious competitor giving your name and address to Fish and Wildlife to get that first inspection underway....
 
Sounds like the authorities being on the rob once again and displaying thuggish manners, it's a money trawling exercise.

I am though, strongly in favour of protecting clearly endangered species and preventing the trafficking of rare or dangerous plants. Killing Rhino for aphrodisiac horn, pulling Tiger's teeth and claws for the same reason, poaching Elephant for illegal ivory, rare Turtles, Whales, eggs or chicks of near extinct birds. All for the whim of a money ridden 'collector' or consumer is just wrong, I'm sure most would agree. However, bone, stag and wood (where harvested strictly) are all renewable resources and don't endanger anything. Those making these regulations need to look at the details properly and carefully before unleashing draconian laws, it's not THAT hard.
 
Will, you are very right.
I'm against the fact of hunting wild (and endangered) animals or tearing down rare plants and trees for the only purpose of taking some "valuable" material.
I just feel that, sometimes, draconian laws are an easy way to solve a "problem", and at the same time they grant some money income.
Unfortunately, it seems that common sense has no part in this.

Fausto
:cool:
 
If I may chime in on this one, I'd add that things are not quite as simple as they are portrayed here. For one thing, this "all powerful" agency of our's is probably one of the most underfunded of the batch, with virtually no realistic prospects of agents covering more than a tiny percentage of the illegal activity. Add to this, that many of the African countries which illegally export are now at asstage of political corruption we haven't seen in our lifetime. This pathetic state of things all leaves us with one avenue if we genuinely care; which is to not buy the ivory period, whether it is "papered" or not. Just participating in creating a demand for the stuffright now benefits the poacher and illegal trader obliquely by increasing demand.
 
johnny1950 said:
If I may chime in on this one, I'd add that things are not quite as simple as they are portrayed here. For one thing, this "all powerful" agency of our's is probably one of the most underfunded of the batch, with virtually no realistic prospects of agents covering more than a tiny percentage of the illegal activity. Add to this, that many of the African countries which illegally export are now at asstage of political corruption we haven't seen in our lifetime. This pathetic state of things all leaves us with one avenue if we genuinely care; which is to not buy the ivory period, whether it is "papered" or not. Just participating in creating a demand for the stuffright now benefits the poacher and illegal trader obliquely by increasing demand.
Click to expand...

Same for diamonds? Where does it end?
I think if we try and make a law for every possible scenario that man can come up with to wrong the world, we will have millions of laws that will only be self enforced by those that wouldn't commit them in the first place. We are definitely our own worst enemy, and the only solution.
 
knifeswapper said:
Same for diamonds? Where does it end?
I think if we try and make a law for every possible scenario that man can come up with to wrong the world, we will have millions of laws that will only be self enforced by those that wouldn't commit them in the first place. We are definitely our own worst enemy, and the only solution.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure I understand your position, as collectors we should stop purchasing Ivory products? Diamonds? Sadly, if that's what your suggesting I think you're right.
If you walk into Tiffany's in NYC they can not with certainty tell you that what you're purchasing is NOT a conflict diamond, what they do is dance around it, and say they make every effort to assure blah blah blah. When you take the money/buyer out of it you solve the problem. Luckily the question here is moot, all the ivory scaled knives I see for sale are pre-ban. :)
 
editedby said:
Luckily the question here is moot, all the ivory scaled knives I see for sale are pre-ban. :)
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, it's not that simple. I mean that you can consider it on a very personal point of view, and that's fine. But some of us are really affected by this...cause if any US maker produces a knife with pre ban ivory, a foreigner practically can't buy it...and no matter how deep you dig, there might be reasons (and valid ones) behind this choice (I understand Johnny1950's point), but honestly there's no "ethical" sense in it. Or, at least, I can't find it, if that's pre ban ivory. Of course, these are my two cents :)

Fausto
:cool:
 
If there is any sort of demand at all there will be a poacher somewhere trying to
fill it. I would like to believe theres estates and museums brimming with pre ban.
Ken.
 
Folks,
This thread will stay open if we all avoid talking rightness and wrongness of regulations. You can state what is. You can state what isn't. But, if you want to argue right and wrong, buy a membership and post in political.
 
it seems i've opened a sore.
in the end it wasn't worth the risk -thats an entirely financial motive.
I'd still like one.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top