GEC- Wont Get Sharp?

Razor

Razor

Joined
Dec 8, 1999
Messages
3,975
I have sharpen knives with M4, D2, S30V, but I have never seen a knife this hard to get sharp. I have a sharpmaker with all the rods except the diamond ones and the flats stone spyderco makes. The knife feels sharp, but won't cut. I had it where it would shave hair off your arm, but when you go to cut something, it seem like the blade would hang up or had a burr on it. I took out one of my SAK and thought I wish this knife would cut like these. I am kinda wondering if I will buy any more of these knives. You would think that a knife that cost three times what a SAK cost would get sharp. Any suggestions? I am hoping that if I keep sharpening it on the medium stone and maybe thin the edge, it will finally cut. I have never had any trouble with BM, ZT's, or spyderco getting sharp as hell. Are the Queens and Schatt Morgan hard to get sharp?
 
1095? The Queens (a lot but not all) have thick blades and bad initial grinds. With the D2 that adds up to a bit of work. Schatts tend to have thinner blades and are just 420 (except file and wire) so they are less of a problem. I don't own a GEC, but the 1095 should not be a problem and it sounds like you have the geometry sorted. Wonder if you got a funky blade. They'll make it right if you did.
 
Well maybe you don't have the geometry sorted. The GECs like the Queens tend to have thick broad blades. I have not seen people complaining like the queens, but maybe you got a bad initial grind. Saks as you know are thin and narrow. You may need to do some reprofiling.

What model is it? Is it GEC Tidioute or Northfield. If it is a GEC then it's 440C and you may find 440C to be a biatch to sharpen.
 
Get the diamond stones. I've reprofiled almost all my GECs at 30 degrees with the diamond stones working toward the ultra fine and finishing on a strop. Doesn't take that long but trying it with the medium stones will take a considerable amount of time.
 
sounds like you have a wire edge that's folding over on you.
try cutting cross grain on some pine to break off the wire, then strop it for a bit
 
If you are using a Sharpmaker, remember that you aren't actually sharpening the edge till the edge bevel on the knife matches the Sharpmaker angle. Do a Sharpie test and make sure the angles are matching.

The other alloys you mentioned are not used on traditional knives. If all your other knives are modern, you should be aware that traditional knives tend to have an edge bevel that is somewhat more oblique than that on a modern design. So the GEC bevel may not be matching the Sharpmaker rod angle.
 
I would bet a dollar that it is a wire edge issue. You may be using too much force and just pushing that edge back and forth too.

If you are getting hair shaving, and then won't cut paper, you don't have a clean apex. Most likely you have a little bur of metal that is getting pushed back and forth.


Spend a bit more time with the stone. Make sure you get that bur/wire edge off before proceeding.


All my GEC have been super easy to get hair jumping sharp. Hair whittling sharp. I just use sandpaper and a strop.
 
This was my thought as well. You can shave and slice paper like butter with a wire edge but as soon as you put it to work it folds over. You need something to polish it off like a strop.

1066vik said:
sounds like you have a wire edge that's folding over on you.
try cutting cross grain on some pine to break off the wire, then strop it for a bit
Click to expand...
 
I never had much luck with the Sharpmaker, but using the Wicked Edge I can get razor sharp edges with the GEC 1095 steel. It's easy to sharpen and hones beautifully. Like others have said, until you reach the apex on both bevels, you'll never get the sharpness you're looking for.
 
Razor said:
You would think that a knife that cost three times what a SAK cost would get sharp. Any suggestions? I am hoping that if I keep sharpening it on the medium stone and maybe thin the edge, it will finally cut. I have never had any trouble with BM, ZT's, or spyderco getting sharp as ****.
Click to expand...

I thinned my edges on my user 72 considerably from the stock grind. The secondary convexish bevel is now 2-3 times the height of the factory one due to the change in angle. I carefully used a DMT diamond stone (coarse/fine) for most of the work, and finished up on a strop and sandpaper--it took longer than I had thought it would what with the usual caveats surrounding diamond hones and 'soft' carbon steel.

I think many times what I perceive as a duller edge is simply a more obtuse one--and I know I take my bevels thinner than most people might. Address the wire edge issue and drop those shoulders down a few degrees and I know you'll be pleased. Unfortunately, some makers of traditional knives are notorious for neglecting their final edge merely because (I assume) they perceive their end user to be a collector first and foremost, whereas companies like Spyderco have partially built their reputation on having a very good edge out of the box (much hand-wringing has been done on this forum to that end.) It may be discouraging to find your knife less than 'Razor' ;) when it arrives, but I doubt there is a defect in the knife per se and more in the final touch put to the edge. There is some great advice in this thread and I hope you can achieve the same level of sharp nirvana as I have with all of my GECs--I know a dozen times over that they put out a product that can cut beautifully, even if they don't send it out that way 100% of the time.
 
Some very sterling advice given above. I was lucky in that my first GEC was sent to me by Duncan in NZ, but I've been astonished at how easily GEC's 1095 sharpens, to the extent I was thinking of starting a thread enquiring about their HT :)
 
As above GEC blades are a dream to sharpen! when you're at the final stages you want to glide it like you're barely touching the stone...once someone told me that I went from amateur to mirror polished edge fiend!
 
OK, stropping was mentioned several times.
I've always been totally confused about it.
For V bevel edges, like these pocket knives what are the actual mechanics of it?
Do you lay the blade flat against the strop, or raise the spine and try to match the angle of the V bevel?
Light or heavy pressure?
Seems like any way I try it, I end up dulling the edge.
Please help?
Lenny
 
All is well. I whitted the edge a few more times on the course stone, and then touch it on the fine stone. It is now razor sharp and cuts like a SAK. I want to thank everyone for their advice. I still think they could come from the factory with a little user friendly edge.
 
Lenny said:
OK, stropping was mentioned several times.
I've always been totally confused about it.
For V bevel edges, like these pocket knives what are the actual mechanics of it?
Do you lay the blade flat against the strop, or raise the spine and try to match the angle of the V bevel?
Light or heavy pressure?
Seems like any way I try it, I end up dulling the edge.
Please help?
Lenny
Click to expand...

In the Maintenance forum there's a really good sticky on stropping. Wish I could be of more help, but I'm just learning myself :)
 
tonystl said:
Get the diamond stones. I've reprofiled almost all my GECs at 30 degrees with the diamond stones working toward the ultra fine and finishing on a strop. Doesn't take that long but trying it with the medium stones will take a considerable amount of time.
Click to expand...

I've found my carbon GECs respond really well to a 30 degree angle. 40 just doesn't seem to take hold well.
 
On stropping, two key things: use an angle less than your sharpening angle, if the edge would bite on a forward stroke its too high and use light pressure. Either of these errors can roll the edge or grind it off.
 
MarkPinTx said:
On stropping, two key things: use an angle less than your sharpening angle, if the edge would bite on a forward stroke its too high and use light pressure. Either of these errors can roll the edge or grind it off.
Click to expand...

That´s correct, imo. I made two strops by my self. I took a real (!!) flat board of pine wood and clued a piece of leather on it. On each strop the same. One I run with compound the other one without. I tried one of these professional barber stropes I bought for some money and it doesn´t work that good because of the flexible leather surface. When I run my homemade strop it works perfect, but it has to be stroped on a lower angle than the sharpening angle. I can tell you nothing about the degrees I´m stroping, that´s really just feeling.
 
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